Discussion
So Bob Diamond has gone, It has occured to me that if the banks are guilty of manipulating the interest rates then ANY ONE who has had a loan or mortgage in say the last 20 years may have been paying an inflated interest rate.......So could millions of people have a legitimate claim to sue the whole banking industry for fraud?
Edited by daveparry on Tuesday 3rd July 15:59
daveparry said:
So Bob Diamond has gone, It has occured to me that if the banks are guilty of manipulating the interest rates then ANY ONE who has had a loan or mortgage in say the last 20 years may have been paying an inflated interest rate.......So could millions of people have a ligitimate claim to sue the whole banking industry for fraud?
No.And it's "legitimate".
turbobloke said:
fbrs said:
oh dear
Saved me from typing the same but then typing something in agreement took longer 
They rolled pretty quickly on the PPI game, and I suspect they'll role pretty quickly on the SME Interest rate swaps. Basically, like with any ego maniacal addict, once confronted they will crumble.
Our financial system needs a simple 12 step approach to coming clean, that process will involve them giving us our money back, mark my words, it's necessary.
Our financial system needs a simple 12 step approach to coming clean, that process will involve them giving us our money back, mark my words, it's necessary.
fido said:
turbobloke said:
fbrs said:
oh dear
Saved me from typing the same but then typing something in agreement took longer The lowering of LIBOR (no currency stated in the FSA report as far as I can see) by senior management would have benefited anyone with a LIBOR linked mortgage.
fido said:
Some twunt on LBC was banging on about mortgages yesterday. FFS, trial by media is one thing, but when most people don't have a frikin' clue what they are talking about, then it's trial by the ignorant. Barclays have their own base rate for mortgages, which isn't driven off LIBOR. Oh, unless Joe Public has been trading IMM swaps - from my understanding the LIBOR figure was nudged on these quaterly roll dates, and not on a daily basis ..
Would libor not influence barclays base rate indirectly?Do you also not think it would influence any deals it was offering retail customers? (I know the retail deals are based on either Barclays or Bank of England base rates, but they are normally base rate plus a MARGIN. Don't you think the setting of margins would be influenced by the cost of the money which Barclays is borrowing on the open market, at LIBOR? LIBOR goes up, then so will the margin over base...)
mrmr96 said:
Do you also not think it would influence any deals it was offering retail customers? (I know the retail deals are based on either Barclays or Bank of England base rates, but they are normally base rate plus a MARGIN. Don't you think the setting of margins would be influenced by the cost of the money which Barclays is borrowing on the open market, at LIBOR? LIBOR goes up, then so will the margin over base...)
I think NorthernBoy and Mr Diamond [in his public announcement 2 days ago] and the FSA has elaborated on this. The effect will either be negligible (as we are talking a basis point 0.01% on a few specific days of the year, in the case of a LIBOR driven product) or non-existent (because as you say mortgages are driven off the BoE or Barclays own base rate). But they have been investigating with the FSA and in the rare event that someone is out of pocket, i guess they will compensate in those cases. However i'll eat my virtual hat if any retail customers will see any comp. We're also missing the big issue of how LIBOR is calculated - it's quite a complex mixture of contributions - and effectively 1bp either way is going to be nigh impossible to prove in a legal claim.djstevec said:
The lowering of LIBOR (no currency stated in the FSA report as far as I can see) by senior management would have benefited anyone with a LIBOR linked mortgage.
That is correct, and i suppose that's the third case and they won't be asking for any extra interest(!)djstevec said:
turbobloke said:
fbrs said:
oh dear
Saved me from typing the same but then typing something in agreement took longer on the occasions barc have been accused of moving libor higher (ignoring the fact they were almost certainly fighting banks on the other side dragging it lower) we are talking about 1 or 2 basis points. for the extremely rare mortgages that are libor linked that would make a difference of £2.50 per quarter, per £100k of mortgage. in any event the much bigger movement was during the credit crisis pitching libor % lower than where unsecured cash would have been if it was actually trading.
the level of ignorance and illogical ranting around this subject is painful.
fbrs said:
djstevec said:
turbobloke said:
fbrs said:
oh dear
Saved me from typing the same but then typing something in agreement took longer on the occasions barc have been accused of moving libor higher (ignoring the fact they were almost certainly fighting banks on the other side dragging it lower) we are talking about 1 or 2 basis points. for the extremely rare mortgages that are libor linked that would make a difference of £2.50 per quarter, per £100k of mortgage. in any event the much bigger movement was during the credit crisis pitching libor % lower than where unsecured cash would have been if it was actually trading.
the level of ignorance and illogical ranting around this subject is painful.
As its been stated its even rarer to find UK mortgages linked to the USD, EUR or Yen LIBOR rates that the traders were manipulating up or down.
And of those attempts to move the rates, for USD LIBOR, 89% of the time Barcs were equal to (or outside of) the 4th highest or lowest rates, so would have made no difference to the rates on that day.
daveparry said:
So Bob Diamond has gone, It has occured to me that if the banks are guilty of manipulating the interest rates then ANY ONE who has had a loan or mortgage in say the last 20 years may have been paying an inflated interest rate.......So could millions of people have a legitimate claim to sue the whole banking industry for fraud?
No. If mortgages were linked to Libor, which they are not, then they would have paid a LOWER rate than they should. So actually anyone who had a loan or mortgage would owe the bank money.Edited by daveparry on Tuesday 3rd July 15:59
Would you like to volunteer to pay up?
djstevec said:
My apologies, again hard to get irony in a written msg unless blindingly obvious (for me anyway!)
As its been stated its even rarer to find UK mortgages linked to the USD, EUR or Yen LIBOR rates that the traders were manipulating up or down.
And of those attempts to move the rates, for USD LIBOR, 89% of the time Barcs were equal to (or outside of) the 4th highest or lowest rates, so would have made no difference to the rates on that day.
Think you may need to think this through again???As its been stated its even rarer to find UK mortgages linked to the USD, EUR or Yen LIBOR rates that the traders were manipulating up or down.
And of those attempts to move the rates, for USD LIBOR, 89% of the time Barcs were equal to (or outside of) the 4th highest or lowest rates, so would have made no difference to the rates on that day.
If (eg) Barcap were outside at (eg) 2.5 (on the upside) then it could mean that a 2.45% is now within the average and is taken into account. If Barcap was 'true' at 2.4%, then the 2.45% is in the outside 4 and discarded?
Or have I got that wrong? The only way that they could truly be totally ignored is if they were so far outside that they really make no difference. and that would be counter intuitive? Slightly circular argument but if they are on or near the fringes, then they may (note MAY) genuinely make a difference. If they are way within and remain within, they make little difference as the spread is so small that the mean is fairly true?
Or is my bottle of red taking over???
The beeb had only Peston and Toenails in their news piece tonight. Two thoroughly politically independent souls (not) and nobody else exists. Opinion presented as fact unchallenged by the willing worker drone who questioned them.
Meanwhile the headline in tomorrow's Guardian: Diamond cuts up rough.
Meanwhile the headline in tomorrow's Guardian: Diamond cuts up rough.
Ozzie Osmond said:
turbobloke said:
The beeb had only Peston ...
The way people lap up Peston's self-important drivelling never ceases to amaze me.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff