Treasury Minister thinks paying with cash is wrong

[martin84]

rs1952 said:

This sort of thing has been going on for years. All those "shop your neighbours for benefit fraud/ drink driving/ domestic violence/ whatever" hotlines than have sprung up.

It raises an interesting moral question. Where do you draw the line when you think that somebody else is doing something illegal?

I'd report drink driving, domestic violence or indeed any sort of violence but I wouldn't report anybody for simply stealing money. The criminals which provoke the most hatrid are ones who've killed children etc, nobody particularly cares about the Bernie Madoffs because all they did was nick some cash.

[pacman1]

martin84 said:

rs1952 said:

This sort of thing has been going on for years. All those "shop your neighbours for benefit fraud/ drink driving/ domestic violence/ whatever" hotlines than have sprung up.

It raises an interesting moral question. Where do you draw the line when you think that somebody else is doing something illegal?

I'd report drink driving, domestic violence or indeed any sort of violence but I wouldn't report anybody for simply stealing money. The criminals which provoke the most hatrid are ones who've killed children etc, nobody particularly cares about the Bernie Madoffs because all they did was nick some cash.

I see your point, but you should consider tightening up your posting style. Now, it's only a matter a time before some dullard suggests 'so you wouldn't mind it if I stole your wallet then?' and the thread degenerates for a page ot two, n'est pas?

[Mermaid]

The French view on checking things

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19004353

[Jasandjules]

Well on Sunday I shall be paying the gardener £60 cash. I trust him to declare it.....

[elster]

martin84 said:

rs1952 said:

This sort of thing has been going on for years. All those "shop your neighbours for benefit fraud/ drink driving/ domestic violence/ whatever" hotlines than have sprung up.

It raises an interesting moral question. Where do you draw the line when you think that somebody else is doing something illegal?

I'd report drink driving, domestic violence or indeed any sort of violence but I wouldn't report anybody for simply stealing money. The criminals which provoke the most hatrid are ones who've killed children etc, nobody particularly cares about the Bernie Madoffs because all they did was nick some cash.

You wouldn't report anyone for stealing money?

This shows how low society is in the UK.

[rs1952]

elster said:

You wouldn't report anyone for stealing money?

This shows how low society is in the UK.

I tend to think that it shows there is a wide difference of opinion in an area which touches on morality. As one would expect it to.

At one end of the spectrum there are the "don't want to get involved" fraternity who turn deaf ears and blind eyes to everything.

At the other there are people who revel in minding other people's business.

Stealing money is an interesting one in itself. Some people who couldn't give a toss about financial dealers ripping off a load of other financial dealers who have probably got more money than they know what to do with anyway, might take a different view if the theft of money involved a little old lady getting mugged outside the Post Office when she'd just collected her pension.

But to get back to the point of this thread, which is whether or not the settlement of bills by cash is wrong, IMHO the government are simply trying to offload the responsibility of HMRC to make sure that they maximise tax take onto the rest of us. And in my view, "sorry lads, not on"

[elster]

rs1952 said:

elster said:

You wouldn't report anyone for stealing money?

This shows how low society is in the UK.

I tend to think that it shows there is a wide difference of opinion in an area which touches on morality. As one would expect it to.

At one end of the spectrum there are the "don't want to get involved" fraternity who turn deaf ears and blind eyes to everything.

At the other there are people who revel in minding other people's business.

Stealing money is an interesting one in itself. Some people who couldn't give a toss about financial dealers ripping off a load of other financial dealers who have probably got more money than they know what to do with anyway, might take a different view if the theft of money involved a little old lady getting mugged outside the Post Office when she'd just collected her pension.

But to get back to the point of this thread, which is whether or not the settlement of bills by cash is wrong, IMHO the government are simply trying to offload the responsibility of HMRC to make sure that they maximise tax take onto the rest of us. And in my view, "sorry lads, not on"

To be fair at no point was it said paying cash is wrong. It was said that people asking to pay cash in hand is wrong.

[rs1952]

elster said:

To be fair at no point was it said paying cash is wrong. It was said that people asking to pay cash in hand is wrong.

The trouble is, even that isn't as clear cut as we are being led to believe. Cash, after all, has the Queen's head on it and is a perfectly legal means of paying your debts. Perfectly legal reasons that an individual might like to be paid in cash, that immediately spring to mind as I write this, are:

1. A small trader with a business account is paying bank charges every time something gets paid in. "Cutting out the middleman" is a way of keeping business costs under control.

2. A small trader may prefer to be out earning a crust than taking time off to go to the bank.

3. If he's got an overdraft, the money paid in may vanish into the black hole that his account and never be seen again. If he's short of a bob or two to pay the bills this week he might prefer to pay his creditors than let the bank have it.

[TheEnd]

rs1952 said:

elster said:

To be fair at no point was it said paying cash is wrong. It was said that people asking to pay cash in hand is wrong.

The trouble is, even that isn't as clear cut as we are being led to believe. Cash, after all, has the Queen's head on it and is a perfectly legal means of paying your debts. Perfectly legal reasons that an individual might like to be paid in cash, that immediately spring to mind as I write this, are:

1. A small trader with a business account is paying bank charges every time something gets paid in. "Cutting out the middleman" is a way of keeping business costs under control.

2. A small trader may prefer to be out earning a crust than taking time off to go to the bank.

3. If he's got an overdraft, the money paid in may vanish into the black hole that his account and never be seen again. If he's short of a bob or two to pay the bills this week he might prefer to pay his creditors than let the bank have it.

Yes it is, don't make me use big fonts and red text, handling over notes isn't a problem, it's doing jobs for cash so the money won't pass through any books.

When people give a price, and they say the price is "£x for cash" it's because they will pocket the lot and not pay any taxes on it.


It makes me think that thousands of people never twigged why they suddenly got a discount when they put their cheque book away.

[martin84]

elster said:

You wouldn't report anyone for stealing money?

This shows how low society is in the UK.

I think the definition of a low society would be one where everybody is a state spy and snooping on their neighbours all the time. I'd report a serious crime if I had information such as violence, drink driving etc because those are things serious enough for a third party to intervene in. If I suspected Joe Plumber down the road wasn't paying his taxes however thats none of my business.

[New POD]

martin84 said:

I'm sorry when did it become my responsibility to handle the tax affairs of the self employed individual who carries out work on my home?

tts.

If you ask for a discount it might be because you think that he might have cash flow problems, and prefer not to wait until the cheque clears, especially if he finishes the job on a Friday, and won't see the money in his account until Wednesday, and that might get you a discount.

I once asked a tradesman if there was a discount for cash, and he said "For fk sake, I have to put something through the books, otherwise the tax man will come down heavy, and anyway, you want a receipt for this, because if it goes tits up, you'll want to sue the arse off me."

Fair enough I think. He was cheaper than a pickey looking toe rag with a nose ring and the job was perfect.

[elster]

martin84 said:

elster said:

You wouldn't report anyone for stealing money?

This shows how low society is in the UK.

I think the definition of a low society would be one where everybody is a state spy and snooping on their neighbours all the time. I'd report a serious crime if I had information such as violence, drink driving etc because those are things serious enough for a third party to intervene in. If I suspected Joe Plumber down the road wasn't paying his taxes however thats none of my business.

So you wouldn't report a robbery? Seriously?

You think it is a low society if you know someone has committed theft and you report them over people being free to thieve away.

[martin84]

elster said:

So you wouldn't report a robbery? Seriously?

You think it is a low society if you know someone has committed theft and you report them over people being free to thieve away.

Ah a robbery is different. That's something I have actually witnessed therefore it is fact that it happened. I would not report anybody based on unfounded suspicions (ie the plumber joe scenario.)

[elster]

martin84 said:

elster said:

So you wouldn't report a robbery? Seriously?

You think it is a low society if you know someone has committed theft and you report them over people being free to thieve away.

Ah a robbery is different. That's something I have actually witnessed therefore it is fact that it happened. I would not report anybody based on unfounded suspicions (ie the plumber joe scenario.)

Well I wouldn't expect to report anything on here say.

You did say you wouldn't report a theft, so that's why I brought it up.As long as you would, I will return to my curtain twitching duties.

[Eric Mc]

Although for certain professions, under the Money Laundering regulations there IS a legal obligation to report someone on the basis of suspicion - which could include being on the basis of hearsay or other rather vague "feelings" about the individual.

I have to be VERY careful with my clients on this score as I can commit a criminal offence without realy trying very hard.

Some of the law contained in the MRO rules is highly worrying.

[ukwill]

This is pathetic. And like I said initially in this thread, excellent WUMmery OP.

If you ask a tradesman to give you a discount in return for paying cash, then you are facilitating tax evasion. Now, that is not to say that I personally give a fk. I've done it myself before on numerous occasions (allegedly). People have been asking to lose "the dreaded" from the bill in exchange for cash payment for generations.

What is there not to like about this? The fact that a Treasury Minister is saying it. And as we already know - they're all a bunch of fking hypocrites.

Nothing to see here.

[Mermaid]

ukwill said:

This is pathetic. And like I said initially in this thread, excellent WUMmery OP.

If you ask a tradesman to give you a discount in return for paying cash, then you are facilitating tax evasion. Now, that is not to say that I personally give a fk. I've done it myself before on numerous occasions (allegedly). People have been asking to lose "the dreaded" from the bill in exchange for cash payment for generations.

What is there not to like about this? The fact that a Treasury Minister is saying it. And as we already know - they're all a bunch of fking hypocrites.

Nothing to see here.

The trend has changed, I think. We are all going to get squeezed & then squeezed a bit more.