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hornetrider
Original Poster
40,812 posts
74 months
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Du1point8
14,308 posts
61 months
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limpsfield
2,856 posts
122 months
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I always loved this about the story:
"At the time she was working as head of fraud and security for digital banking"
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martin84
5,366 posts
22 months
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limpsfield said: I always loved this about the story:
"At the time she was working as head of fraud and security for digital banking" Always happens doesnt it. The one in charge of stuff not being stolen is the one who knows best how to steal it.
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wollowizard
6,624 posts
69 months
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article said: She also admitted a single charge of transferring criminal property, the money, which she had defrauded from her employers. So that means the people she stole from should be dealt with in exactly the same way then.
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Mojooo
7,304 posts
49 months
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Hefty suspended sentence with community service I would guess.
Worst case jail for 6 months (or 18 months sentence serving 6). the 'problem' with sending her to jail is that you would have to bang her up for years to refeclt the crime - and i doubt they will want to do that.
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toxicnerve
5,281 posts
46 months
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wollowizard said: article said: She also admitted a single charge of transferring criminal property, the money, which she had defrauded from her employers. So that means the people she stole from should be dealt with in exactly the same way then. One assumes the key word that's missing there is "knowingly".
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Deva Link
26,934 posts
114 months
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hornetrider said: The article seems to imply 'next time' she'll get a custodial. It was her defence counsel saying that. Seems an odd thing to say - implies that she may well do it again.
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johnfm
9,024 posts
119 months
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The simplest of fraud too - I think she just submitted and approved invoices onto the purchase ledger.
One of the biggest fraud risks for any business - I have seen or heard of it done so many times.
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Somewhatfoolish
3,627 posts
55 months
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I reckon by "next time" they mean the next time she is in court since for whatever reason she hasn't been sentenced this time. Someone at my firm nicked just under five million and got five years. I'd link to the news story if it didn't identify who I work for! He was in a senior position in the back office, but in nothing close to the size of lloyds. I would imagine she's looking at the same sort of time period. Quite possibly longer cause he didn't set out to steal money, it was the traditional make money from the markets from an illegal trading account, then if it goes wrong start betting the firm on it approach. This is huge embezzlement with the money nicked. f  k it, I'm going for 8 years. This is even more serious.
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turbobloke
55,495 posts
129 months
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johnfm said: The simplest of fraud too - I think she just submitted and approved invoices onto the purchase ledger.  No segregation of duties?! Unless the submission record was falsified (or wasn't needed) and it was to a company, this sounds really basic as you say. ETA 5 years
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Derek Smith
16,058 posts
117 months
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I nicked a kid for theft from employer. Nothing much, just some trousers. There was a suggestion that stock had been going missing fairly regularly but there was nothing to connect this lad with the other items even after searching his home and, considering it was a shop, shoplifting was much more likely. In present day terms the trousers would be worth around £30.
The kid, aged around 23, had two previous, one not connected - can't remember what it was - and one of theft, shoplifting when he was 18/19. His mother said that he'd changed since the previous case. Nice family by the way.
He got two months. There was an appeal and it was suspended but the magistrates felt that abuse of trust was a considerable aggravating factor.
So if we work back from 2 months for £30, that makes it a year for every £150. £2.4m divided by 150 is a very long time inside.
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Digga
10,898 posts
152 months
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johnfm said: The simplest of fraud too - I think she just submitted and approved invoices onto the purchase ledger.
One of the biggest fraud risks for any business - I have seen or heard of it done so many times. Yes. The guy from our accountants who helps with our management accounts has himself stumbled upon two such cases which have been prosecuted . One defendant decided to commit suicide prior to trial and our accountant says he hopes he never finds another - but he keeps looking. As you say, it's usually a secretary or financial controller in an organisation. One of the ones's our guy found was PA to the boss of a local housing Quango and the scale of the fraud ( no business would have missed it on the figuers I saw) tells you a fair bit about the OPM (Other Peoples Money) culture.
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Oilchange
2,837 posts
129 months
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...so what was the sentence?
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Jasandjules
45,458 posts
98 months
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I would hope 10 years plus being required to pay it all back. But I won't hold my breath.
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Eric Mc
67,261 posts
134 months
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johnfm said: The simplest of fraud too - I think she just submitted and approved invoices onto the purchase ledger.
One of the biggest fraud risks for any business - I have seen or heard of it done so many times. I wonder what her employment status was? Employees don't tend to submit invoices to their employers. My take would be that she was operating through her own personal service company. I have nothing against personal service companies, but I always think they are innapropriate for those who hold senior managerial positions in organisations, such as heads of department or chief executives.
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Deva Link
26,934 posts
114 months
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Eric Mc said: I wonder what her employment status was? Employees don't tend to submit invoices to their employers. My take would be that she was operating through her own personal service company. I have nothing against personal service companies, but I always think they are innapropriate for those who hold senior managerial positions in organisations, such as heads of department or chief executives. Apparently she was an employee on £70K/yr. There don't seem to be any details of how she did it - I'm guessing she was approving a £50K/mth invoice for anti-virus software. 
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johnfm
9,024 posts
119 months
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Eric Mc said: I wonder what her employment status was? Employees don't tend to submit invoices to their employers. My take would be that she was operating through her own personal service company. I have nothing against personal service companies, but I always think they are innapropriate for those who hold senior managerial positions in organisations, such as heads of department or chief executives. Eric You missed the point of the fraud. She will have been 'submitting ' false invoices from any number of non existent fake suppliers. Depending on the systems, if she was then in the workflow to approve the invoices, money wwohld then just land in whatever accounts had been set up in the system. It requires access to the accounting system to set up a supplier account etc.
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joewilliams
1,465 posts
70 months
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Eric Mc said: johnfm said: The simplest of fraud too - I think she just submitted and approved invoices onto the purchase ledger.
One of the biggest fraud risks for any business - I have seen or heard of it done so many times. I wonder what her employment status was? Employees don't tend to submit invoices to their employers. My take would be that she was operating through her own personal service company. I have nothing against personal service companies, but I always think they are innapropriate for those who hold senior managerial positions in organisations, such as heads of department or chief executives. In our case, the accountant was submitting fake invoices from legitimate suppliers, then diverting the payment (by cheque in those days) to himself. The banks apparently counted the signatures on the cheques, but never compared them to the mandate. For £150k, he got a two year sentence. He'd previously had a suspended sentence for benefit fraud; the judge mentioned it in his sentencing but I don't know if it affected the length.
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Du1point8
14,308 posts
61 months
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Deva Link said: Eric Mc said: I wonder what her employment status was? Employees don't tend to submit invoices to their employers. My take would be that she was operating through her own personal service company. I have nothing against personal service companies, but I always think they are innapropriate for those who hold senior managerial positions in organisations, such as heads of department or chief executives. Apparently she was an employee on £70K/yr. There don't seem to be any details of how she did it - I'm guessing she was approving a £50K/mth invoice for anti-virus software. Still trying to work it out... as even payroll would get surely flag up £50k/mth invoice for her signed by her if she was on £70k a year which sounds like a permanent job. Maybe they were paying a 3rd party company for services rendered, she owned the company and just pocketed it? Not quite as good as the moron at a bank I worked at that tried to steal £70 million, placing half in an off shore account and half in account in manchester. Had access to both security systems (plus someone who was supposed to delete his access but didn't when he moved from security to payments), then the f king genius decided to use a key logger on a colleagues keyboard, came in at the weekend and logged in as him and stole the money. Got flagged up straight away as payments are not done manually at weekends, despite him saying it wasnt him, the fact hes on all the security cameras, was the only one that came in unauthorised at the weekend didnt enter his tiny brain. Believe hes now got some porridge to do.
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