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Puggit
29,500 posts
117 months
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sooperscoop said: And to boot, any bank which processes transactions for a US citizen MUST report it to the US Govt, even if the bank has no presence in the US, like if they are a one branch bank in deepest Borneo. How would the US enforce such a policy?
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martin84
Original Poster
5,366 posts
22 months
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It's true it happened here in the 1970s but high tax rates were only a fraction of the story. The country was buckling under 20% inflation, most industry was nationalised trying to compete in a world which had moved on and there were strikes every ten minutes. By the time the higher income tax rate had reduced to 40% in the 1980s, the Governments tax take increased fivefold. Marf said: Wait, US Citizens working abroad can be liable for income tax in the US on money earnt and taxed a foreign country? Wow, you learn something every day. Indeed, another stupid American idea. Personally I believe if you're not using a countries public services or in a position to use it (which you're obviously not if you don't live there) you shouldn't be paying that country any money.
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sooperscoop
143 posts
32 months
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Puggit said: How would the US enforce such a policy? Stolen from Forbes: Forbes said: FATCA requires foreign banks to report U.S. account holders to the IRS. After identifying U.S. account holders, the institutions must impose a 30% tax on payments or transfers to account holders who refuse to identify themselves.
To avoid withholding, an institution must enter into an agreement with the IRS to:
Identify U.S. accounts;
Report certain information to the IRS regarding U.S. accounts; and
Withhold a 30% tax on certain payments to non-participating foreign financial institutions and account holders unwilling to provide the required information.
Foreign institutions that don’t sign an IRS agreement will face withholding on U.S.-source interest and dividends, gross proceeds from the disposition of U.S. securities, and pass-through payments. Basically "You'll never work here again!"
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martin84
Original Poster
5,366 posts
22 months
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Land of the free indeed 
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Du1point8
14,282 posts
61 months
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Its amazing that people dont understand how much people have to work to get a salary like that.
City boys aside, you need to work years (unless lucky in a niche market) to build up a company for the owner and top dogs to earn that much, in the process they have put a hell of a lot more back into the economy in taxes, etc.
Doing something like they are suggesting will ruin the small businesses that are trying to prop up their market, lets hope they come to britain and replace the 1/3 of the hedge funds we lost when the super tax came into effect as a 'one off'.
idiots.
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Somewhatfoolish
3,627 posts
55 months
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TankRizzo said: Steffan said: Really? I think they are. Only part of the UK to be invaded in WWII. I think he means they are crown dependencies like IOM. Indeedy doody. Somewhatfoolish Port Erin Isle of Man Not-the-UK 
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MKnight702
769 posts
83 months
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will_ said: Evidence of envy politics at work (or not). 75% of bugger all is bugger all.
Hopefully the Left in this country will take note. I suspect not.... I'm sure they are taking notes, just not in the way you hope, more like plans...
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Halb
17,859 posts
52 months
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rs1952 said: I have read What's It All About. He mentions the tax thing, I cannot recall exactly the reasons, but he does admit he cocked up since he stayed under Labour and paid loads, and then left (or had just left) under Thatcher when those high taxes were repealed.
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Digga
10,898 posts
152 months
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martin84 said: I believe if you're not using a countries public services or in a position to use it (which you're obviously not if you don't live there) you shouldn't be paying that country any money. Except that every tax exile who is arrested/kidnapped suddenly expects his mothoer country's diplomatic and/or military services to drop everything and come to the rescue.
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Some Gump
4,373 posts
55 months
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In 1930, the Republican-controlled House of Representatives, in an effort to alleviate the effects of the... Anyone? Anyone?... the Great Depression, passed the... Anyone? Anyone? The tariff bill? The Hawley-Smoot Tariff Act? Which, anyone? Raised or lowered?... raised tariffs, in an effort to collect more revenue for the federal government. Did it work? Anyone? Anyone know the effects? It did not work, and the United States sank deeper into the Great Depression. Today we have a similar debate over this. Anyone know what this is? Class? Anyone? Anyone? Anyone seen this before? The Laffer Curve. Anyone know what this says? It says that at this point on the revenue curve, you will get exactly the same amount of revenue as at this point. This is very controversial. Does anyone know what Vice President Bush called this in 1980? Anyone? Something-d-o-o economics. "Voodoo" economics.
Admit it, you read it in that voice, didn't you?
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Riff Raff
2,224 posts
64 months
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Some Gump said: In 1930, the Republican-controlled House of Representatives, in an effort to alleviate the effects of the... Anyone? Anyone?... the Great Depression, passed the... Anyone? Anyone? The tariff bill? The Hawley-Smoot Tariff Act? Which, anyone? Raised or lowered?... raised tariffs, in an effort to collect more revenue for the federal government. Did it work? Anyone? Anyone know the effects? It did not work, and the United States sank deeper into the Great Depression. Today we have a similar debate over this. Anyone know what this is? Class? Anyone? Anyone? Anyone seen this before? The Laffer Curve. Anyone know what this says? It says that at this point on the revenue curve, you will get exactly the same amount of revenue as at this point. This is very controversial. Does anyone know what Vice President Bush called this in 1980? Anyone? Something-d-o-o economics. "Voodoo" economics.
Admit it, you read it in that voice, didn't you? You know, my MP, Dr. Vince Cable, has a doctorate in Economics. Allegedly. Yet neither he, or the party which he belongs to, seem not to be aware of the laffer curve, or it's implications. They just want everybody to be equally poor. Makes me despair.
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Puggit
29,500 posts
117 months
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Riff Raff said: You know, my MP, Dr. Vince Cable, has a doctorate in Economics. Allegedly.
Yet neither he, or the party which he belongs to, seem not to be aware of the laffer curve, or it's implications. They just want everybody to be equally poor.
Makes me despair. He's also failed to influence the coalition to take any action to fix this bloody big hole we're in! In fact, time to make a thread about this.
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andymadmak
6,222 posts
139 months
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Riff Raff said: You know, my MP, Dr. Vince Cable, has a doctorate in Economics. Allegedly.
Yet neither he, or the party which he belongs to, seem not to be aware of the laffer curve, or it's implications. They just want everybody to be equally poor.
Makes me despair. Just have a peek at the pages of the Grauniad mate and the comments on line. The left does not accept the Laffer Curve.. probably because it rather contradicts their whole mind set regarding tax and spend. I have to laugh though.... all the lefties on here lambasting the Government for the UK being in a double dip recession and some were even pointing at Hollandes victory a while back and trumpeting about how his tax and spend plans were the way to deal with recession...... France went double dip yesterday too, despite all those grandiose plans, all that extra debt, all those proposed extra taxes.
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Du1point8
14,282 posts
61 months
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martin84 said: It's true it happened here in the 1970s but high tax rates were only a fraction of the story. The country was buckling under 20% inflation, most industry was nationalised trying to compete in a world which had moved on and there were strikes every ten minutes. By the time the higher income tax rate had reduced to 40% in the 1980s, the Governments tax take increased fivefold. Marf said: Wait, US Citizens working abroad can be liable for income tax in the US on money earnt and taxed a foreign country? Wow, you learn something every day. Indeed, another stupid American idea. Personally I believe if you're not using a countries public services or in a position to use it (which you're obviously not if you don't live there) you shouldn't be paying that country any money. So if I dont use the NHS as I have BUPA cover, can I stop paying that part of my tax according to you? Or if I dont use the local schooling as I have no kids, I can stop that part of my taxes? I think you need to rethink what you mean.
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BOR
3,125 posts
124 months
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Riff Raff said: Yet neither he, or the party which he belongs to, seem not to be aware of the laffer curve, or it's implications. Laffer Curve ?  You do know that the Laffer Curve is just a theory some bloke sketched on the back of a fag packet? You do know there is zero evidence that it has any relation to reality whatsoever ?
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FourWheelDrift
56,461 posts
153 months
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Some Gump said: Admit it, you read it in that voice, didn't you? I did
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andymadmak
6,222 posts
139 months
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BOR said: Riff Raff said: Yet neither he, or the party which he belongs to, seem not to be aware of the laffer curve, or it's implications. Laffer Curve ? You do know that the Laffer Curve is just a theory some bloke sketched on the back of a fag packet? You do know there is zero evidence that it has any relation to reality whatsoever ? We might be seeing some evidence in France now.. 
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PRTVR
809 posts
90 months
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Riff Raff said: You know, my MP, Dr. Vince Cable, has a doctorate in Economics. Allegedly.
Yet neither he, or the party which he belongs to, seem not to be aware of the laffer curve, or it's implications. They just want everybody to be equally poor.
Makes me despair. I think you are wrong with that statement....... they do not want to be poor themselves.
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DJRC
19,831 posts
105 months
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Digga said: martin84 said: I believe if you're not using a countries public services or in a position to use it (which you're obviously not if you don't live there) you shouldn't be paying that country any money. Except that every tax exile who is arrested/kidnapped suddenly expects his mothoer country's diplomatic and/or military services to drop everything and come to the rescue. Hell no, I want the Swiss guys! The Swiss dont f  k about and just send the boys in  At the time of the Libyan thing last yr, the only country that was technically at war/in hostilities with Libya in Europe was Switzerland. Even though they were holding £10bn of the Ghads money
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Blue62
1,396 posts
21 months
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BOR said: Laffer Curve ? You do know that the Laffer Curve is just a theory some bloke sketched on the back of a fag packet? You do know there is zero evidence that it has any relation to reality whatsoever ? I suspect that when jumping on bandwagons the detail behind Laffer is not questioned around here! On an apolitical note, it would be genuinely interesting to see what effect Hollande's policy has on the French economy and whether the theory holds up (or at what point). It's surely too soon into his tenancy to blame the latest set of figures on him, but the specific point about tax income elasticity would be genuinely put to the test, although objective outcomes would probably take years to assess.
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