Virgin lose West Coast franchise to First Group
Discussion
I've no idea whether this First Group bid will be better or worse than Dickie Branson's but now his labour mates are no longer in power two important thangs have changed as far as I can see:
For the first time one of these franchises includes some penalties if the franchisee fails to live up to the contract to the tune of £265m.
Secondly the cost of subsidising the railways has been changed from 50% taxpayer/50% rail user to 25% taxpayer and 75% rail user.
For the first time one of these franchises includes some penalties if the franchisee fails to live up to the contract to the tune of £265m.
Secondly the cost of subsidising the railways has been changed from 50% taxpayer/50% rail user to 25% taxpayer and 75% rail user.
Caulkhead said:
I've no idea whether this First Group bid will be better or worse than Dickie Branson's but now his labour mates are no longer in power two important thangs have changed as far as I can see:
For the first time one of these franchises includes some penalties if the franchisee fails to live up to the contract to the tune of £265m.
Secondly the cost of subsidising the railways has been changed from 50% taxpayer/50% rail user to 25% taxpayer and 75% rail user.
Labour mates??? Does no one recall the camelot fiasco? Or the British Airways fiasco. Trust me if labour were his "mates" he wouldnt have had those issues.For the first time one of these franchises includes some penalties if the franchisee fails to live up to the contract to the tune of £265m.
Secondly the cost of subsidising the railways has been changed from 50% taxpayer/50% rail user to 25% taxpayer and 75% rail user.
c7xlg said:
I think everyone is being a little hard on First Group as such.
From my understanding the rail franchises just transfer from one company to another lock-stock and smoking engine. So when the franchise moves over it will be the same trains, on the same track with the same staff operating. The short term franchise system leaves little room for any return on investments made by the operators. (win the franchise, 6 months to figure out what needs fixing, 12-24 months to 'fix it', leaving only 4-5 years to make back all your investment in the savings offered AND a profit before potentially losing the francise).
Remember First Group run pretty much all the trains in Scotland, lots of the UK buses, most of the yellow school buses in american, Greyhound and quite a lot of police cars, fire engines etc etc. They might possibly know as much, if not more about how to run a good transport service than a branding company who are just as interested in soft drinks, broadband and planes as they are in trains....
Tocs only make around 4% - 5% profit on a franchise, they pay around 20% - 25% to National Rail to use the tracks, and around 20% to lease the rolling stock which they have to pay for the maintenance too. I don't think things would be any better under BR tho.From my understanding the rail franchises just transfer from one company to another lock-stock and smoking engine. So when the franchise moves over it will be the same trains, on the same track with the same staff operating. The short term franchise system leaves little room for any return on investments made by the operators. (win the franchise, 6 months to figure out what needs fixing, 12-24 months to 'fix it', leaving only 4-5 years to make back all your investment in the savings offered AND a profit before potentially losing the francise).
Remember First Group run pretty much all the trains in Scotland, lots of the UK buses, most of the yellow school buses in american, Greyhound and quite a lot of police cars, fire engines etc etc. They might possibly know as much, if not more about how to run a good transport service than a branding company who are just as interested in soft drinks, broadband and planes as they are in trains....
It does seem quite a larger bid tho.
I work for the railways and there is a bit of a conspiracy theory going about as to why this venture will not fail,
We have
First Transpennine
First Great Western
First West Coast
First Hull Trains
First Capital Connect
First Scotrail
Almost a monopoly, I think either that First will take on the day to day running of the railway or once all routes are taken over then Network Rail will announce the takeover of First Rail.
We have
First Transpennine
First Great Western
First West Coast
First Hull Trains
First Capital Connect
First Scotrail
Almost a monopoly, I think either that First will take on the day to day running of the railway or once all routes are taken over then Network Rail will announce the takeover of First Rail.
TallbutBuxomly said:
Caulkhead said:
I've no idea whether this First Group bid will be better or worse than Dickie Branson's but now his labour mates are no longer in power two important thangs have changed as far as I can see:
For the first time one of these franchises includes some penalties if the franchisee fails to live up to the contract to the tune of £265m.
Secondly the cost of subsidising the railways has been changed from 50% taxpayer/50% rail user to 25% taxpayer and 75% rail user.
Labour mates??? Does no one recall the camelot fiasco? Or the British Airways fiasco. Trust me if labour were his "mates" he wouldnt have had those issues.For the first time one of these franchises includes some penalties if the franchisee fails to live up to the contract to the tune of £265m.
Secondly the cost of subsidising the railways has been changed from 50% taxpayer/50% rail user to 25% taxpayer and 75% rail user.
GarryA said:
I work for the railways and there is a bit of a conspiracy theory going about as to why this venture will not fail,
We have
First Transpennine
First Great Western
First West Coast
First Hull Trains
First Capital Connect
First Scotrail
Almost a monopoly, I think either that First will take on the day to day running of the railway or once all routes are taken over then Network Rail will announce the takeover of First Rail.
Aren't they giving the Great Western Line back and walking away?We have
First Transpennine
First Great Western
First West Coast
First Hull Trains
First Capital Connect
First Scotrail
Almost a monopoly, I think either that First will take on the day to day running of the railway or once all routes are taken over then Network Rail will announce the takeover of First Rail.
He might have a point.
http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/vi...
don't know about customer service but fleet delivery? you're havin a laugh
http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/vi...
don't know about customer service but fleet delivery? you're havin a laugh
Apache said:
He might have a point.
http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/vi...
don't know about customer service but fleet delivery? you're havin a laugh
Hilarious that it lost out on customer service and fleet delivery considering how badly firsgroup are viewed by customers compared to virgin.http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/vi...
don't know about customer service but fleet delivery? you're havin a laugh
This is going to be one hell of a clusterf
k.The unions are absolutely bang on the money reference job cuts there will be many. Cue s
tloads of strikes by the unions and service delivery going out the window.They are also right on fares as those are going to absolutely rocket.toppstuff said:
Aren't they giving the Great Western Line back and walking away?
Yes they are, they did that to avoid paying 0.8Bn to the govt.However, in the bit to tender for the contact guess who is there in the list of preferred bids?
First Great Western Trains Limited (FirstGroup plc)
GW Trains Limited (Arriva UK Trains Limited – DB (UK) Investments Limited)
NXGW Trains Limited (National Express Group PLC)
Stagecoach Great Western Trains Limited (Stagecoach Group plc)
You really couldn't make this up.
There is a thought that the TOCs and FOCs will take over the maintenance side of things and that Network Rail will continue with owning / consulting / managing and delivering upgrades and renewals to the railway i.e. the jobs that make money not piss it up the wall.
All imho!
There is a thought that the TOCs and FOCs will take over the maintenance side of things and that Network Rail will continue with owning / consulting / managing and delivering upgrades and renewals to the railway i.e. the jobs that make money not piss it up the wall.
All imho!
GarryA said:
Yes they are, they did that to avoid paying 0.8Bn to the govt.
However, in the bit to tender for the contact guess who is there in the list of preferred bids?
First Great Western Trains Limited (FirstGroup plc)
GW Trains Limited (Arriva UK Trains Limited – DB (UK) Investments Limited)
NXGW Trains Limited (National Express Group PLC)
Stagecoach Great Western Trains Limited (Stagecoach Group plc)
FGW are handing back the contract entirely within the framework agreed by the government, taking the risk that they will not win the franchise next time around.However, in the bit to tender for the contact guess who is there in the list of preferred bids?
First Great Western Trains Limited (FirstGroup plc)
GW Trains Limited (Arriva UK Trains Limited – DB (UK) Investments Limited)
NXGW Trains Limited (National Express Group PLC)
Stagecoach Great Western Trains Limited (Stagecoach Group plc)
I don't think they are going anything underhand, like, say, National Express Group PLC, who decided to give up on the east coast franchise completely, and handed it back to the government !
GarryA said:
You really couldn't make this up.
There is a thought that the TOCs and FOCs will take over the maintenance side of things and that Network Rail will continue with owning / consulting / managing and delivering upgrades and renewals to the railway i.e. the jobs that make money not piss it up the wall.
All imho!
That sort of happens now? Virgin certainly did their own maintenance as do other TOCs, sometimes the OEMs take care of it like Bombardier do but NR have nothing to do with rolling stock. They do, however, spunk more money up the wall than Paris Hilton on a hen nightThere is a thought that the TOCs and FOCs will take over the maintenance side of things and that Network Rail will continue with owning / consulting / managing and delivering upgrades and renewals to the railway i.e. the jobs that make money not piss it up the wall.
All imho!
I think you only need to see what is happening to Network Rail
You now have,
Network Rail High Speed
Network Rail Infrastructure Maintenance
Network Rail Consultancy
Network Rail Infrastructure Projects
Network Rail Property
There only the ones I can think of I am sure there is more, there is a massive drive to reduce mtce costs on the network which is fair enough but I think once its all sorted it will be sold off as all the work to sort the mtce out will have reduced the risk of a contractor taking it on.
You now have,
Network Rail High Speed
Network Rail Infrastructure Maintenance
Network Rail Consultancy
Network Rail Infrastructure Projects
Network Rail Property
There only the ones I can think of I am sure there is more, there is a massive drive to reduce mtce costs on the network which is fair enough but I think once its all sorted it will be sold off as all the work to sort the mtce out will have reduced the risk of a contractor taking it on.
GarryA said:
I think you only need to see what is happening to Network Rail
You now have,
Network Rail High Speed
Network Rail Infrastructure Maintenance
Network Rail Consultancy
Network Rail Infrastructure Projects
Network Rail Property
There only the ones I can think of I am sure there is more, there is a massive drive to reduce mtce costs on the network which is fair enough but I think once its all sorted it will be sold off as all the work to sort the mtce out will have reduced the risk of a contractor taking it on.
I work for Network Rail Asset Information...You now have,
Network Rail High Speed
Network Rail Infrastructure Maintenance
Network Rail Consultancy
Network Rail Infrastructure Projects
Network Rail Property
There only the ones I can think of I am sure there is more, there is a massive drive to reduce mtce costs on the network which is fair enough but I think once its all sorted it will be sold off as all the work to sort the mtce out will have reduced the risk of a contractor taking it on.
They HAVE restructured the company to sell it off in little packets.
Apache said:
Does this article state that this is because of pressure from the public due the work by virgins market team?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff