Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 2
Discussion
ViperPict said:
davepoth said:
ViperPict said:
Do we really remember the actions of the Nazi Party from the early 1920s? Come on...
"The one who does not remember history is bound to live through it again"-George Santayana
davepoth said:
ViperPict said:
davepoth said:
ViperPict said:
Do we really remember the actions of the Nazi Party from the early 1920s? Come on...
"The one who does not remember history is bound to live through it again"-George Santayana
ViperPict said:
So let me get this right? You are claiming that the 'socialist' beginnings of the Nazi party is the most important aspect to take from their history? You are clutching at straws pal...
No, I am saying that the Nazi Party was a socialist party that moved to being a fascist dictatorship once in power. Fascism, as I and others have told you, does not have its basis in solely the left or the right wing - parties of both sides have been fascists at one time or another. If you look at the 25 point manifesto, you will find many things in there that were key policies of the Nazi Party right until the end.
davepoth said:
ViperPict said:
So let me get this right? You are claiming that the 'socialist' beginnings of the Nazi party is the most important aspect to take from their history? You are clutching at straws pal...
No, I am saying that the Nazi Party was a socialist party that moved to being a fascist dictatorship once in power. Fascism, as I and others have told you, does not have its basis in solely the left or the right wing - parties of both sides have been fascists at one time or another. If you look at the 25 point manifesto, you will find many things in there that were key policies of the Nazi Party right until the end.
The point is that the Nazi party is remembered by regarded historians as being on the extreme right - that was the issue. Where they began (and there is also some debate there) is not as important as the political doctrine under which they waged war and conducted all the atrocaties they did.
You are clutching at straws trying to save face it seems to me...
ViperPict said:
When did I ever disagree that facism is employed by both the extreme right and left?! In fact I said as much in as many words!
The point is that the Nazi party is remembered by regarded historians as being on the extreme right - that was the issue. Where they began (and there is also some debate there) is not as important as the political doctrine under which they waged war and conducted all the atrocaties they did.
You are clutching at straws trying to save face it seems to me...
No, as far as I can see the Nazi Party is remembered by you, and the one historian of unknown standing who you have quoted an article from, as a party of the far right. Everyone else understands that their Fascist policies were Fascist, and if you take those policies away you are left with Socialism. I've already posted their manifesto once, there isn't much point doing it again.The point is that the Nazi party is remembered by regarded historians as being on the extreme right - that was the issue. Where they began (and there is also some debate there) is not as important as the political doctrine under which they waged war and conducted all the atrocaties they did.
You are clutching at straws trying to save face it seems to me...
davepoth said:
ViperPict said:
When did I ever disagree that facism is employed by both the extreme right and left?! In fact I said as much in as many words!
The point is that the Nazi party is remembered by regarded historians as being on the extreme right - that was the issue. Where they began (and there is also some debate there) is not as important as the political doctrine under which they waged war and conducted all the atrocaties they did.
You are clutching at straws trying to save face it seems to me...
No, as far as I can see the Nazi Party is remembered by you, and the one historian of unknown standing who you have quoted an article from, as a party of the far right. Everyone else understands that their Fascist policies were Fascist, and if you take those policies away you are left with Socialism. I've already posted their manifesto once, there isn't much point doing it again.The point is that the Nazi party is remembered by regarded historians as being on the extreme right - that was the issue. Where they began (and there is also some debate there) is not as important as the political doctrine under which they waged war and conducted all the atrocaties they did.
You are clutching at straws trying to save face it seems to me...
And the fact that the Nazis actively persecuted socialist groups? Doesn't much sound like the actions of a socialist political party.
Hey, if you really need a dumbed down synthesis (and, to be fair, in this case it's actually pretty good), read the relevant Wikipedia article.
ViperPict said:
Despite the article I cited which provides a synthesis of the views of the leading historians on the subject.
And the fact that the Nazis actively persecuted socialist groups? Doesn't much sound like the actions of a socialist political party.
Hey, if you really need a dumbed down synthesis (and, to be fair, in this case it's actually pretty good), read the relevant Wikipedia article.
Funny thing about Conservatives is that if they're upset, they can usually be placated with money. With Socialists however, give them money they tend to moan even more.And the fact that the Nazis actively persecuted socialist groups? Doesn't much sound like the actions of a socialist political party.
Hey, if you really need a dumbed down synthesis (and, to be fair, in this case it's actually pretty good), read the relevant Wikipedia article.
...and we're back in the room.
davepoth said:
WhereamI said:
Fascinating as this is(n't), does it have anything to do with Scottish independence?
VP is trying to convince us that Neep Heid isn't a Nazi, I think. That's what I've taken from the conversation anyway.
ViperPict said:
davepoth said:
WhereamI said:
Fascinating as this is(n't), does it have anything to do with Scottish independence?
VP is trying to convince us that Neep Heid isn't a Nazi, I think. That's what I've taken from the conversation anyway.davepoth said:
I'm postulating here, but perhaps suggesting that the most odious government in the history of ever, developed from Socialism is a somewhat bitter pill to swallow?
Correct. A couple of generations of left leaning historians have called the Nazis right wing because they couldnt stomach the truth. Von Mises produced the definitive analysis, but he is not alone.Just look at the policies of the Nazis, its a socialist totalitarian state ,with many similarities to the Soviet USSR.
VP thinks that because two parties are socialist then they cant be bitter enemies. LOL, tell that to the bolshevics and communists.
TheHeretic said:
ViperPict said:
TheHeretic said:
But you have been pushing the idea that Nazism was a right wing ideology... You have been for some posts now. 
Yes. And?davepoth said:
ViperPict said:
davepoth said:
WhereamI said:
Fascinating as this is(n't), does it have anything to do with Scottish independence?
VP is trying to convince us that Neep Heid isn't a Nazi, I think. That's what I've taken from the conversation anyway.I think it grinds your gears tho that the extreme expression of right wing politics was the Nazi party!
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