Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 2

[ViperPict]

eharding said:

ViperPict said:

The cause is already won to some extent. There are already more powers for the devolved parliament and more to come. Indendence may well come though 'death by a thousand cuts', so to speak. It may be a gradual process and, at some point we'll realise, 'Hey, we pretty much ARE independent'...

May have been the masterplan all along...

I agree with the master-plan concept - in that around 2014-2015 Holyrood will have to balance the books from local taxation, through powers ceded from Westminster....and much will be the wailing and gnashing of teeth, and the realisation by the Nationalists that there have been more than one "master-plans" in play....

I think that Whitehall has only just woken up to the independence issue...

[eharding]

ViperPict said:

eharding said:

ViperPict said:

The cause is already won to some extent. There are already more powers for the devolved parliament and more to come. Indendence may well come though 'death by a thousand cuts', so to speak. It may be a gradual process and, at some point we'll realise, 'Hey, we pretty much ARE independent'...

May have been the masterplan all along...

I agree with the master-plan concept - in that around 2014-2015 Holyrood will have to balance the books from local taxation, through powers ceded from Westminster....and much will be the wailing and gnashing of teeth, and the realisation by the Nationalists that there have been more than one "master-plans" in play....

I think that Whitehall has only just woken up to the independence issue...

I'd argue it has been planned for since 1706.......

[ViperPict]

eharding said:

ViperPict said:

eharding said:

ViperPict said:

The cause is already won to some extent. There are already more powers for the devolved parliament and more to come. Indendence may well come though 'death by a thousand cuts', so to speak. It may be a gradual process and, at some point we'll realise, 'Hey, we pretty much ARE independent'...

May have been the masterplan all along...

I agree with the master-plan concept - in that around 2014-2015 Holyrood will have to balance the books from local taxation, through powers ceded from Westminster....and much will be the wailing and gnashing of teeth, and the realisation by the Nationalists that there have been more than one "master-plans" in play....

I think that Whitehall has only just woken up to the independence issue...

I'd argue it has been planned for since 1706.......

I don't think that their arrogance would have allowed for it...

[Caulkhead]

ViperPict said:

eharding said:

ViperPict said:

eharding said:

ViperPict said:

The cause is already won to some extent. There are already more powers for the devolved parliament and more to come. Indendence may well come though 'death by a thousand cuts', so to speak. It may be a gradual process and, at some point we'll realise, 'Hey, we pretty much ARE independent'...

May have been the masterplan all along...

I agree with the master-plan concept - in that around 2014-2015 Holyrood will have to balance the books from local taxation, through powers ceded from Westminster....and much will be the wailing and gnashing of teeth, and the realisation by the Nationalists that there have been more than one "master-plans" in play....

I think that Whitehall has only just woken up to the independence issue...

I'd argue it has been planned for since 1706.......

I don't think that their arrogance would have allowed for it...

Perhaps they just believe the polls.

[WhereamI]

ViperPict said:

So are the references to Salmond by stupid names purile too? I'm just providing some parity.

Of course it is, entirely puerile but done to provide some balance. At least it's possible to know who is being referred to when Scamond and fat Alex are used, Im never quite sure who you mean by some of yours.

ViperPict said:

And are you seriously saying that it would cost Scotland MORE not to have Trident? Really? Note that only the renewal of Trident will cost at least £35BN...

I am certainly seriously suggesting that the loss of Trident and Faslane would be a huge blow to the Scottish economy. It's an example where a massive amount of UK taxpayer money is gathered from us all and then spent in one place and that place is in Scotland.

ViperPict said:

The fact that England and Wales do means testing does not mean that it is cost efficient...

Are you seriously trying to tell me that it is cheaper for Scotland to provide all these things free than it would be to adopt the system in England? Are you really thinking that abolishing tuition fees, giving free personal care etc. etc. saves Scotland money?

[mcdjl]

ViperPict said:

Somewhere between there and 50% would be good for, say, >£1M pa.

I missed this point yesterday, sorry. Didn't they recently introduce that rule in France? How's it working there? Or are the French millionaires following the Scottish ones to Barbados?

[WhereamI]

mcdjl said:

ViperPict said:

Somewhere between there and 50% would be good for, say, >£1M pa.

I missed this point yesterday, sorry. Didn't they recently introduce that rule in France? How's it working there? Or are the French millionaires following the Scottish ones to Barbados?

Yes, 75% which is why so many are relocating to London

[thinfourth2]

WhereamI said:

mcdjl said:

ViperPict said:

Somewhere between there and 50% would be good for, say, >£1M pa.

I missed this point yesterday, sorry. Didn't they recently introduce that rule in France? How's it working there? Or are the French millionaires following the Scottish ones to Barbados?

Yes, 75% which is why so many are relocating to London

Yes and won't france be so much better off without those evil rich people punishing the poor people by giving them jobs

[Wombat3]

WhereamI said:

ViperPict said:

The fact that England and Wales do means testing does not mean that it is cost efficient...

Are you seriously trying to tell me that it is cheaper for Scotland to provide all these things free than it would be to adopt the system in England? Are you really thinking that abolishing tuition fees, giving free personal care etc. etc. saves Scotland money?

Economics is not his strong suit

[Edinburger]

WhereamI said:

ViperPict said:

Let's see how much the means testing to determine who should be and who should not be eligable for wholesale benefits will cost...

It works fine in the rest of the UK

ViperPict said:

And talking about costs, what proportion of the social budget is Scotland's share of Trident?

Scrapping trident will cost Scotland money. Scotland is the bit of the UK where most of the cost of maintaining trident is spent, it's where the subs and missiles are based. Scotland will be worse off without trident,

ViperPict said:

And you don't seem to be following the basis for the blog (ignorant of Scottish politics?) if you do not undertand my reference...

I understand the basis for the blog but your puerile references to political figures by stupid names does wear a bit thin.

Can you please explain how scrapping Trident will cost Scotland money?

[Edinburger]

eharding said:

ViperPict said:

The cause is already won to some extent. There are already more powers for the devolved parliament and more to come. Indendence may well come though 'death by a thousand cuts', so to speak. It may be a gradual process and, at some point we'll realise, 'Hey, we pretty much ARE independent'...

May have been the masterplan all along...

I agree with the master-plan concept - in that around 2014-2015 Holyrood will have to balance the books from local taxation, through powers ceded from Westminster....and much will be the wailing and gnashing of teeth, and the realisation by the Nationalists that there have been more than one "master-plans" in play....

And that, eharding, is an sbsolutely critical point.

For me personally, independence is a no-brainer if the economics stack up. I'm yet to be convinced that they either do stack up or that they don't stack up. I know lots of people in the same boat as me.

So it's critical that the SNP and YES campaign convince the elctorate, and probably especially people like me, on this point.

[TheHeretic]

Edinburger said:

Can you please explain how scrapping Trident will cost Scotland money?

There is a lot of investment in Faslane, and the rest of the infrastructure in Scotland. Dropping it would remove that investment, and you would get zero percent investment after Independence, due to the stuff being removed from there.

[mcdjl]

Edinburger said:

Can you please explain how scrapping Trident will cost Scotland money?

Overall I can't say how much of the tax take etc goes to Trident or its replacement. However its not the full cost of it. What is known is that Faslane provides 5000 direct jobs (from a number of pages back which was referenced) as well as a number of indirect jobs. Pulling Trident would wipe out this area, or directly cost at least £100m (5000x£20k), ok you can argue the actual wages and cost but this money would disappear from the area. Then theres the indirect cost of jobs lost etc. Ok so maybe it adds up to a loss overall, i don't have all the figures of how much Scotland contributes etc. Your call at the end of the day if you get independence. Probably good for some other part of the UK when Faslane gets replaced: a massive building job, followed by a long term employment boost.
Actually its government funded so it comes out of tax: hence its a cost overall, no matter where the cash ends up, much better for it to land back in England if you don't want it

[BliarOut]

ViperPict said:

Wombat3 said:

ViperPict said:

mcdjl said:

ViperPict said:

If you mean the real one then you need to slap yourself.

If you mean the SG politician, have a wild guess based on appearances...

Must try harder...

Just looked it up. too young sorry. the appearance doesn't help. the Wikipedia page could be salmond.....if I had my eyes shut.
Anything to say about the rest of my comments?

Firstly, your nickname Scalmond doesn't even work! Don't just try and copy Scameron (that DOES work as a play on words!). Some originality please. 2/10.

No, I think Scamond works perfectly well thanks. Its almost at peurile and pathetic as Scameron, but not quite.

But he says 'Scalmond' which does not work. And Scamond is still just not original, is it? I am quite proud of 'wee Jimmy Krankie' though...

Edit: the nickname, NOT the person I hasten to add...

Fat brain dead self serving insular Scotch prick has a certain ring to it...

[ViperPict]

TheHeretic said:

Edinburger said:

Can you please explain how scrapping Trident will cost Scotland money?

There is a lot of investment in Faslane, and the rest of the infrastructure in Scotland. Dropping it would remove that investment, and you would get zero percent investment after Independence, due to the stuff being removed from there.

But they are planning on spending an ADDITIONAL £35BN+! It is a net COST to Scotland, even taking associated jobs into the equation...

[thinfourth2]

ViperPict said:

But they are planning on spending an ADDITIONAL £35BN+! It is a net COST to Scotland, even taking associated jobs into the equation...

Its called democracy

Get used to it

[Edinburger]

thinfourth2 said:

Its called democracy

Get used to it

Strange post. Given your views.

[Caulkhead]

thinfourth2 said:

ViperPict said:

But they are planning on spending an ADDITIONAL £35BN+! It is a net COST to Scotland, even taking associated jobs into the equation...

Its called democracy

Get used to it

The separatists only like democracy if they can set goal posts where they want.

[ViperPict]

thinfourth2 said:

ViperPict said:

But they are planning on spending an ADDITIONAL £35BN+! It is a net COST to Scotland, even taking associated jobs into the equation...

Its called democracy

Get used to it

Aye. As is voting not to have Trident via a YES vote...

[thinfourth2]

ViperPict said:

Aye. As is voting not to have Trident via a YES vote...

Sadly it looks like for every person that votes YES there will be 2 voting NO