Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 2
Discussion
ViperPict said:
el stovey said:
The SNP never really expected to get into this situation, they only got voted in because Labour have done so badly and Scottish people won't vote Conservative outside small parts of Edinburgh. So they promised to have a referendum on independence and have to now go along with it. Respect to them for not welching out like Cameron did over Europe.
The SNP know, or strongly suspect, Scottish people won't vote for independence and tried to have the third option which was just more Westminster money AND power for Scotland, unsurprisingly that wasn't popular in Westminster.
I expect that even if Braveheart is shown the night before the vote thankfully there will only be about 30% in favour of independence. At best, the SNP can hope that the vote and the activity beforehand, will be enough to result in some more concessions or devolved powers for Scotland.
I agree with most of what you've written. Although I think the vote will be a lot closer than most folk think. Two years to go, during which time the general Scottish populace (not the privelaged few who tend to post on here) will get more and more disenchanted with Dave et al. I think the alternative to the status quo will start to look more and more worth the risk.The SNP know, or strongly suspect, Scottish people won't vote for independence and tried to have the third option which was just more Westminster money AND power for Scotland, unsurprisingly that wasn't popular in Westminster.
I expect that even if Braveheart is shown the night before the vote thankfully there will only be about 30% in favour of independence. At best, the SNP can hope that the vote and the activity beforehand, will be enough to result in some more concessions or devolved powers for Scotland.
Wombat3 said:
Oh so now there is a risk to this? And what would that be exactly then? I thought you said it would just all be fine & work itself out?
Although Wombat has asked in a slightly confrontational manner, I think we'd be delighted to read a brief summary of your appraisal of the risks and rewards of independence, VP. Top 3 of each, in order of importance to you, will do, so we can better understand your position, and perhaps stop slagging you off 
simoid said:
ViperPict said:
simoid said:
ViperPict said:
Well, guess what? It's the SNP's proposed date and question, not Westminster's!
Only once they find a question that is not horrendously leading in nature, and is acceptable to the electoral commission...
Do you seriously think that it would trick folk into not voting the way they want to?!
Seriously...
Wombat3 said:
ViperPict said:
el stovey said:
The SNP never really expected to get into this situation, they only got voted in because Labour have done so badly and Scottish people won't vote Conservative outside small parts of Edinburgh. So they promised to have a referendum on independence and have to now go along with it. Respect to them for not welching out like Cameron did over Europe.
The SNP know, or strongly suspect, Scottish people won't vote for independence and tried to have the third option which was just more Westminster money AND power for Scotland, unsurprisingly that wasn't popular in Westminster.
I expect that even if Braveheart is shown the night before the vote thankfully there will only be about 30% in favour of independence. At best, the SNP can hope that the vote and the activity beforehand, will be enough to result in some more concessions or devolved powers for Scotland.
I agree with most of what you've written. Although I think the vote will be a lot closer than most folk think. Two years to go, during which time the general Scottish populace (not the privelaged few who tend to post on here) will get more and more disenchanted with Dave et al. I think the alternative to the status quo will start to look more and more worth the risk.The SNP know, or strongly suspect, Scottish people won't vote for independence and tried to have the third option which was just more Westminster money AND power for Scotland, unsurprisingly that wasn't popular in Westminster.
I expect that even if Braveheart is shown the night before the vote thankfully there will only be about 30% in favour of independence. At best, the SNP can hope that the vote and the activity beforehand, will be enough to result in some more concessions or devolved powers for Scotland.
simoid said:
Wombat3 said:
Oh so now there is a risk to this? And what would that be exactly then? I thought you said it would just all be fine & work itself out?
Although Wombat has asked in a slightly confrontational manner, I think we'd be delighted to read a brief summary of your appraisal of the risks and rewards of independence, VP. Top 3 of each, in order of importance to you, will do, so we can better understand your position, and perhaps stop slagging you off I think we there is risk of Scotland not becoming the fairer society it could be by staying in the Union.
I think there is risk that the important issues specifically affecting Scotland (and not necessarily the rUK) will be neglected by staying in the UK.
I think that there is risk that the Westminster government's economic policy will negatively effect the economy the UK for many years to come.
ViperPict said:
simoid said:
ViperPict said:
simoid said:
ViperPict said:
Well, guess what? It's the SNP's proposed date and question, not Westminster's!
Only once they find a question that is not horrendously leading in nature, and is acceptable to the electoral commission...Do you seriously think that it would trick folk into not voting the way they want to?!
Seriously...
Should be something more like:
"Should the Scottish Government negotiate with the UK Parliament to bring about Scottish Independence, at the earliest opportunity?
Yes [ ]
No [ ]"
or
"The Scottish Government should negotiate with the UK Parliament to bring about Scottish Independence, at the earliest opportunity."
I agree [ ]
I do not agree [ ]"
Edited by simoid on Monday 15th October 13:13
Both governments appear to have agreed it could have an influence, hence what will happen in autumn/winter 2012 according to this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...
simoid said:
ViperPict said:
simoid said:
ViperPict said:
simoid said:
ViperPict said:
Well, guess what? It's the SNP's proposed date and question, not Westminster's!
Only once they find a question that is not horrendously leading in nature, and is acceptable to the electoral commission...Do you seriously think that it would trick folk into not voting the way they want to?!
Seriously...
Should be something more like:
"Should the Scottish Government negotiate with the UK Parliament to bring about Scottish Independence, at the earliest opportunity?
Yes [ ]
No [ ]"
or
"The Scottish Government should negotiate with the UK Parliament to bring about Scottish Independence, at the earliest opportunity."
I agree [ ]
I do not agree [ ]"
Edited by simoid on Monday 15th October 13:13
mcdjl said:
Both governments appear to have agreed it could have an influence, hence what will happen in autumn/winter 2012 according to this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...
I presume you mean 2014?
ViperPict said:
simoid said:
Wombat3 said:
Oh so now there is a risk to this? And what would that be exactly then? I thought you said it would just all be fine & work itself out?
Although Wombat has asked in a slightly confrontational manner, I think we'd be delighted to read a brief summary of your appraisal of the risks and rewards of independence, VP. Top 3 of each, in order of importance to you, will do, so we can better understand your position, and perhaps stop slagging you off I think we there is risk of Scotland not becoming the fairer society it could be by staying in the Union.
I think there is risk that the important issues specifically affecting Scotland (and not necessarily the rUK) will be neglected by staying in the UK.
I think that there is risk that the Westminster government's economic policy will negatively effect the economy the UK for many years to come.
ViperPict said:
Your questions would confuse folk - "What are we voting for?" The 'negotiations' (as far as the word has been used thus far) refer to the process following a yes vote...
That's what the vote is about though, therefore the question is objective and fair, although we'd perhaps need to water it down so as not to confuse troglodytes.Can you see how people could "agree that Scotland should be an independent country" but not want to be independent? That makes the question, and any referendum result, invalid.
Q: "Do you agree that cheese should be on food products?"
A: "Yes"
"Here are your cheesy cornflakes, sir"
simoid said:
ViperPict said:
Your questions would confuse folk - "What are we voting for?" The 'negotiations' (as far as the word has been used thus far) refer to the process following a yes vote...
That's what the vote is about though, therefore the question is objective and fair, although we'd perhaps need to water it down so as not to confuse troglodytes.Can you see how people could "agree that Scotland should be an independent country" but not want to be independent? That makes the question, and any referendum result, invalid.
Q: "Do you agree that cheese should be on food products?"
A: "Yes"
"Here are your cheesy cornflakes, sir"
Guam said:
I cant see the issue here, a simple question "Do you want Scotland to leave the UK and attain independence" Yes or No is all it needs surely?
Sounds fair to me.I think the wording of the question will not fool anyone into voting against their views. Unless it was something like 'Do you not think that Scotland will be worse off if independent or not?"
ViperPict said:
I think the wording of the question will not fool anyone into voting against their views.
It's not about fooling, it's about leading.It's easier in the mind to 'agree' to certain questions.
We can probably drop the question of 'the question' for now, seeing as the Electoral Commission will do testing and such things to remove bias.
Although I think the Electoral Commission may be an anti-independence body...
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