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Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 2

Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 2

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simoid

14,468 posts

55 months

Monday 15th October 2012
quotequote all
ViperPict said:
Your questions would confuse folk - "What are we voting for?" The 'negotiations' (as far as the word has been used thus far) refer to the process following a yes vote...
That's what the vote is about though, therefore the question is objective and fair, although we'd perhaps need to water it down so as not to confuse troglodytes.

Can you see how people could "agree that Scotland should be an independent country" but not want to be independent? That makes the question, and any referendum result, invalid.




Q: "Do you agree that cheese should be on food products?"

A: "Yes"

"Here are your cheesy cornflakes, sir"


simoid

14,468 posts

55 months

Monday 15th October 2012
quotequote all
TheHeretic said:
ViperPict said:
I presume you mean 2014?
No, he doesn't. Read the timeline.
"Autumn/winter 2012

- Electoral Commission begins the practical preparations, including testing the fairness and clarity of the question"

simoid

14,468 posts

55 months

Monday 15th October 2012
quotequote all
Guam said:
I cant see the issue here, a simple question "Do you want Scotland to leave the UK and attain independence" Yes or No is all it needs surely?
That's a nice balanced, neutral, non-leading question. Easy when you're not trying to do anything else... smile

ViperPict

9,909 posts

134 months

Monday 15th October 2012
quotequote all
TheHeretic said:
ViperPict said:
I presume you mean 2014?
No, he doesn't. Read the timeline.
It could be applied to both 2012 and 2014.

ViperPict

9,909 posts

134 months

Monday 15th October 2012
quotequote all
simoid said:
ViperPict said:
Your questions would confuse folk - "What are we voting for?" The 'negotiations' (as far as the word has been used thus far) refer to the process following a yes vote...
That's what the vote is about though, therefore the question is objective and fair, although we'd perhaps need to water it down so as not to confuse troglodytes.

Can you see how people could "agree that Scotland should be an independent country" but not want to be independent? That makes the question, and any referendum result, invalid.




Q: "Do you agree that cheese should be on food products?"

A: "Yes"

"Here are your cheesy cornflakes, sir"
Let's agree that word 'negotiation' will NOT be in the question...

TheHeretic

73,668 posts

152 months

Monday 15th October 2012
quotequote all
ViperPict said:
It could be applied to both 2012 and 2014.
Maybe so, but he stated what he stated.

ViperPict

9,909 posts

134 months

Monday 15th October 2012
quotequote all
Guam said:
I cant see the issue here, a simple question "Do you want Scotland to leave the UK and attain independence" Yes or No is all it needs surely?
Sounds fair to me.

I think the wording of the question will not fool anyone into voting against their views. Unless it was something like 'Do you not think that Scotland will be worse off if independent or not?"

simoid

14,468 posts

55 months

Monday 15th October 2012
quotequote all
ViperPict said:
I think the wording of the question will not fool anyone into voting against their views.
It's not about fooling, it's about leading.

It's easier in the mind to 'agree' to certain questions.

We can probably drop the question of 'the question' for now, seeing as the Electoral Commission will do testing and such things to remove bias.

Although I think the Electoral Commission may be an anti-independence body... wink

ViperPict

9,909 posts

134 months

Monday 15th October 2012
quotequote all
simoid said:
ViperPict said:
I think the wording of the question will not fool anyone into voting against their views.
It's not about fooling, it's about leading.

It's easier in the mind to 'agree' to certain questions.

We can probably drop the question of 'the question' for now, seeing as the Electoral Commission will do testing and such things to remove bias.

Although I think the Electoral Commission may be an anti-independence body... wink
I recall the proposed question had already been reviewed and regarded as not leading by some leading political academic a while back...

The danger for Westminster (as they discovered early doors) is that being seen to bully the SG into taking on their requirements for the referendum will result in a negative reaction from the electorate...

Edited by ViperPict on Monday 15th October 14:14

simoid

14,468 posts

55 months

Monday 15th October 2012
quotequote all
ViperPict said:
I recall the proposed question had already been reviewed and regarded as not leading by some leading political academic a while back...
Came up in conversation with a psychology graduate friend of mine, who said it was basically a "textbook example" of a leading question.

simoid

14,468 posts

55 months

Monday 15th October 2012
quotequote all
ViperPict said:
The danger for Westminster (as they discovered early doors) is that being seen to bully the SG into taking on their requirements for the referendum will result in a negative reaction from the electorate...
Blasted politics, eh.

ViperPict

9,909 posts

134 months

Monday 15th October 2012
quotequote all
simoid said:
ViperPict said:
I recall the proposed question had already been reviewed and regarded as not leading by some leading political academic a while back...
Came up in conversation with a psychology graduate friend of mine, who said it was basically a "textbook example" of a leading question.
We'll see what the Electoral Commission think. Although I think the wording of the question will have little bearing on the outcome of the referendum...

simoid

14,468 posts

55 months

Monday 15th October 2012
quotequote all
ViperPict said:
simoid said:
ViperPict said:
I recall the proposed question had already been reviewed and regarded as not leading by some leading political academic a while back...
Came up in conversation with a psychology graduate friend of mine, who said it was basically a "textbook example" of a leading question.
We'll see what the Electoral Commission think. Although I think the wording of the question will have little bearing on the outcome of the referendum...
The fact that it is possible for a psychology graduate to hold that opinion reduces the validity of the vote and any result, and we don't want that.

ViperPict

9,909 posts

134 months

Monday 15th October 2012
quotequote all
simoid said:
ViperPict said:
simoid said:
ViperPict said:
I recall the proposed question had already been reviewed and regarded as not leading by some leading political academic a while back...
Came up in conversation with a psychology graduate friend of mine, who said it was basically a "textbook example" of a leading question.
We'll see what the Electoral Commission think. Although I think the wording of the question will have little bearing on the outcome of the referendum...
The fact that it is possible for a psychology graduate to hold that opinion reduces the validity of the vote and any result, and we don't want that.
Although an independent academic did not think it an issue?

ViperPict

9,909 posts

134 months

simoid

14,468 posts

55 months

Monday 15th October 2012
quotequote all
ViperPict said:
simoid said:
ViperPict said:
simoid said:
ViperPict said:
I recall the proposed question had already been reviewed and regarded as not leading by some leading political academic a while back...
Came up in conversation with a psychology graduate friend of mine, who said it was basically a "textbook example" of a leading question.
We'll see what the Electoral Commission think. Although I think the wording of the question will have little bearing on the outcome of the referendum...
The fact that it is possible for a psychology graduate to hold that opinion reduces the validity of the vote and any result, and we don't want that.
Although an independent academic did not think it an issue?
Although an independent academic did not think it an issue, the question has been viewed by some as "leading", and so could give an impression of a referendum that is not as fair as possible.

And, as I said earlier, I do agree that Scotland should be an independent country. However, I think we're better off in the UK so have to vote the opposite of my opinion in the event of that being the referendum question silly

dirty boy

13,808 posts

106 months

Monday 15th October 2012
quotequote all
I can't possibly read all forty pages to catch up....but something that just crossed my mind as I spotted this back in the news...

Am I right in assuming most of an Independent Scotland's income would generated from North Sea oil?

If so, that's a pretty finite resource for a 'new' country to set up on is it not? Could they challenge the remainder of the UK in the financial sector for income generation?

I'm sure a lot of thought has gone into this, but I can't help but 'think' the UK would be better off without Scotland. Which isn't necessarily a good thing.

thinfourth2

32,414 posts

101 months

Monday 15th October 2012
quotequote all
ViperPict said:
Article said:
The deal will also commit both governments to working together constructively in the best interests of the people of Scotland, whatever the outcome of the referendum.
I take it that both houses will all resign then and do something constructive that benefits the UK as a whole like picking up dog pooh and at no point getting involved with anything that actually matters

ViperPict

9,909 posts

134 months

Monday 15th October 2012
quotequote all
dirty boy said:
I can't possibly read all forty pages to catch up....but something that just crossed my mind as I spotted this back in the news...

Am I right in assuming most of an Independent Scotland's income would generated from North Sea oil?

If so, that's a pretty finite resource for a 'new' country to set up on is it not? Could they challenge the remainder of the UK in the financial sector for income generation?

I'm sure a lot of thought has gone into this, but I can't help but 'think' the UK would be better off without Scotland. Which isn't necessarily a good thing.
No, most of Scotland's revenue will not be from oil.

ViperPict

9,909 posts

134 months

Monday 15th October 2012
quotequote all
Guam said:
ViperPict said:
No, most of Scotland's revenue will not be from oil.
It will be from Scotty land the Theme park <launching in 2015>
Surely you're not that ignorant to think that the only industry Scotland has is O&G? Whisky is a £4B pa industry alone...
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