Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 2

[WhereamI]

ViperPict said:

That figure implies that all civil servants are living off the state. Police, nurses, army, fire brigade etc are all sponging off the state? Totally a case of lies, damned lies and statistics... And the most transparent abuse of data I think that I've ever seen! How very naive of them.

They are paid for by the state, whether you want to describe that as 'sponging' is up to you.

What I don't know, and would be interested to see some data on, is how much Scotland benefits from UK Government spending that would cease given independence. Some of it is obvious, for example NS&I would presumably relocate from Glasgow and presumably the Royal Navy would no longer have ships built on the Clyde and would, one assumes, shut down HMNB Clyde.

[BliarOut]

Guam said:

BliarOut said:

I never mentioned sponging, I asked how are you going to pay for it?

The floor is all yours...

The simple questions are often the hardest to answer

[London424]

WhereamI said:

ViperPict said:

That figure implies that all civil servants are living off the state. Police, nurses, army, fire brigade etc are all sponging off the state? Totally a case of lies, damned lies and statistics... And the most transparent abuse of data I think that I've ever seen! How very naive of them.

They are paid for by the state, whether you want to describe that as 'sponging' is up to you.

What I don't know, and would be interested to see some data on, is how much Scotland benefits from UK Government spending that would cease given independence. Some of it is obvious, for example NS&I would presumably relocate from Glasgow and presumably the Royal Navy would no longer have ships built on the Clyde and would, one assumes, shut down HMNB Clyde.

It will also be interesting to see how many public sector jobs will be relocated to the rUK v.s. those that would need to be created. For example, DVLA equivalent etc

Would there be a net loss of public sector jobs, or more required to carry out functions that are covered in the rUK.

[WhereamI]

London424 said:

WhereamI said:

ViperPict said:

That figure implies that all civil servants are living off the state. Police, nurses, army, fire brigade etc are all sponging off the state? Totally a case of lies, damned lies and statistics... And the most transparent abuse of data I think that I've ever seen! How very naive of them.

They are paid for by the state, whether you want to describe that as 'sponging' is up to you.

What I don't know, and would be interested to see some data on, is how much Scotland benefits from UK Government spending that would cease given independence. Some of it is obvious, for example NS&I would presumably relocate from Glasgow and presumably the Royal Navy would no longer have ships built on the Clyde and would, one assumes, shut down HMNB Clyde.

It will also be interesting to see how many public sector jobs will be relocated to the rUK v.s. those that would need to be created. For example, DVLA equivalent etc

Would there be a net loss of public sector jobs, or more required to carry out functions that are covered in the rUK.

Exactly, or will Scotland sub-contract some services like vehicle licensing to the UK? Of course we won't get an answer because none of this has been thought through let alone negotiated.

[simoid]

God, that'll be expensive, relocating all of those service jobs, and setting up the Scottish equivalents. Consider a Scottish DVLA, imagine having to set that up. How would we know where to start? Same with all of the other public services.

It might be better if we continued to share those with the rest of the UK...

[thinfourth2]

simoid said:

God, that'll be expensive, relocating all of those service jobs, and setting up the Scottish equivalents. Consider a Scottish DVLA, imagine having to set that up. How would we know where to start? Same with all of the other public services.

It might be better if we continued to share those with the rest of the UK...

The DVLA would be easy to replicate

Find a moron with no organisational skills who hates anyone who owns a car and you have made a start

[IainT]

thinfourth2 said:

The DVLA would be easy to replicate

Find a moron with no organisational skills who hates anyone who owns a car and you have made a start an improvement.

HTH

[martin84]

Not sure how Her Majesty would feel about a properly independent Scotland, led by President Salmond. I believe she has a holiday home of sorts there.

[ViperPict]

AstonZagato said:

ViperPict said:

Explain in detail this 'serious budget deficit'? Bearing in mind Scotland pays more to the UK coffers than it receives. TI'm no expert but that is called something else isn't it? Er, something like a 'surplus'?

As always on economics, you are wrong:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/Brows...

The Scottish government thinks it is in deficit, as does everyone else who understands these things.

Less deficit that the UK though?

[Caulkhead]

thinfourth2 said:

Find a moron with no organisational skills who hates anyone who owns a car and you have made a start

They are already all employed by the Scottish government and most local councils.

[Caulkhead]

thinfourth2 said:

Kermit power said:

Speaking as an Englishman, will everyone please stop bloody pointing out the realities of Scottish independence!

If the pro-independence people are allowed to carry on living in cloud cuckoo land without anyone forcing the scales from their eyes, then there's a much greater chance that they will get a yes vote in the referendum and we can set about getting shot of them!

Some most of us north of the border are sick of the pro-independence lot already

And personnelly i'm not wanting to pay 95% tax to pay for the socilaist dream where everything is banned to save one life

Don't take any notice of Kermit Power - he's got his own thread going on telling us how wonderful everything would be if we were all part of federal EU with central finances and defence and everyone in the euro paying EU dictated tax levels.

The irony of him wanting to see the back of Scotland but wanting complete EU control of the UK seems lost on him.

[London424]

ViperPict said:

AstonZagato said:

ViperPict said:

Explain in detail this 'serious budget deficit'? Bearing in mind Scotland pays more to the UK coffers than it receives. TI'm no expert but that is called something else isn't it? Er, something like a 'surplus'?

As always on economics, you are wrong:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/Brows...

The Scottish government thinks it is in deficit, as does everyone else who understands these things.

Less deficit that the UK though?

Are we seriously going to go round this circle again?

[Wombat3]

London424 said:

ViperPict said:

AstonZagato said:

ViperPict said:

Explain in detail this 'serious budget deficit'? Bearing in mind Scotland pays more to the UK coffers than it receives. TI'm no expert but that is called something else isn't it? Er, something like a 'surplus'?

As always on economics, you are wrong:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/Brows...

The Scottish government thinks it is in deficit, as does everyone else who understands these things.

Less deficit that the UK though?

Are we seriously going to go round this circle again?

Not really, its just that the dullard cant understand the basics of economics & nor will his brain stretch to considering the importance of external factors (such as freedom from the Eu fiscal bandits, not being part of the Euro, the scale and capacity of the underlying economy & having your own central bank) when considering how manageble (or not) a deficit is.

The size of it in absolute or even percentage terms is less than half the issue - as is clearly demonstrated by the UK's current credit rating depite the size of the current debt and deficit.

Edited by Wombat3 on Tuesday 16th October 18:24

[BliarOut]

ViperPict said:

AstonZagato said:

ViperPict said:

Explain in detail this 'serious budget deficit'? Bearing in mind Scotland pays more to the UK coffers than it receives. TI'm no expert but that is called something else isn't it? Er, something like a 'surplus'?

As always on economics, you are wrong:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/Brows...

The Scottish government thinks it is in deficit, as does everyone else who understands these things.

Less deficit that the UK though?

Ahem...

Going to do your usual trick and avoid the really important questions?

BliarOut said:

I never mentioned sponging, I asked how are you going to pay for it?

The floor is all yours...

[AstonZagato]

ViperPict said:

Less deficit that the UK though?

I think the difference is sufficiently small to be within the margin of error (they admit elsewhere that that they can't really calculate it and it is essentially a sensible guess). As it is the Scottish government, one also might believe a small measure of wishful thinking in the definitions of UK vs Scottish revenues and spending. The final outcome will also be dependent on the final settlement of independence.

Edited by AstonZagato on Tuesday 16th October 22:22

[Kermit power]

Caulkhead said:

thinfourth2 said:

Kermit power said:

Speaking as an Englishman, will everyone please stop bloody pointing out the realities of Scottish independence!

If the pro-independence people are allowed to carry on living in cloud cuckoo land without anyone forcing the scales from their eyes, then there's a much greater chance that they will get a yes vote in the referendum and we can set about getting shot of them!

Some most of us north of the border are sick of the pro-independence lot already

And personnelly i'm not wanting to pay 95% tax to pay for the socilaist dream where everything is banned to save one life

Don't take any notice of Kermit Power - he's got his own thread going on telling us how wonderful everything would be if we were all part of federal EU with central finances and defence and everyone in the euro paying EU dictated tax levels.

The irony of him wanting to see the back of Scotland but wanting complete EU control of the UK seems lost on him.

No I don't. I have a thread going asking why people want to leave the EU with a view to determining if that then explains why political parties all campaign on a view of "in" or "out", rather than "fix it so it's not fked".

I also pointed out that the problem with the Euro is that it is either too much or not enough of an integration, but you seem unable to grasp that this is not a defence of the EU as it currently stands.

To address your point here, however, there is no irony in my position. If someone wants to be part of a union with me, that's one thing - whether it be at national or international level. If they don't want to be part of a union with me, then they can fk off, especially if they're costing money.

[BliarOut]

Funny that, VP seems to think people don't notice when he tries to sidestep a question

[ViperPict]

BliarOut said:

Funny that, VP seems to think people don't notice when he tries to sidestep a question

Only you, only you...

[simoid]

Notice what?

[BliarOut]

ViperPict said:

BliarOut said:

Funny that, VP seems to think people don't notice when he tries to sidestep a question

Only you, only you...

So will you answer the question as to how it's all going to be paid for or will you use that as your excuse to avoid it?