US Elections 2012 Obama v Romney Official Thread
Discussion
unrepentant said:
Captain Cadillac said:
unrepentant said:
Downside - you have to sell Neons and Commanders and listen to the captains bs all day 
Hi. It's 2012. Neons haven't been sold since Dubya was president. Commanders? Since 2010.
I'm also rather good at what I do.
But out of curiosity, what does making snide remarks have anything to do with the election, or related subjects? Just curious to see where your logic is on this.
Captain Cadillac said:
unrepentant said:
Captain Cadillac said:
unrepentant said:
Downside - you have to sell Neons and Commanders and listen to the captains bs all day
Hi. It's 2012. Neons haven't been sold since Dubya was president. Commanders? Since 2010.
I'm also rather good at what I do.
But out of curiosity, what does making snide remarks have anything to do with the election, or related subjects? Just curious to see where your logic is on this.
The Chrysler dealer network was too large surely? Dealerships closed but there still seem to be plenty around. Sounds like survival of the fittest?
unrepentant said:
As the alternative to the bailout was bankruptcy with no prospect of private investment capital available for companies like Chrysler that were haemorrhaging cash then yes you should.
The Chrysler dealer network was too large surely? Dealerships closed but there still seem to be plenty around. Sounds like survival of the fittest?
First, have you actually read the op-ed piece? The Chrysler dealer network was too large surely? Dealerships closed but there still seem to be plenty around. Sounds like survival of the fittest?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney...
Romney advocated a massive restructuring which would have focused on Detroit getting their costs in line with their competition. And he had one thing wrong, it wasn't a $2,000 per car disadvantage over the competition (in retiree benefits alone) it was closer to $2,500! You're in the business, you realize how much $2,500 represents in actual content n a mass market car; its astronomical.
As far as Chryslers dealer network? I think that Mr Rattner decided that it was too big. Yes, some of the closed stores belonged to large publicly traded groups like Auto Nation, Asbury, etc.. But the vast majority of them belonged to small business owners. I personally know and am friends with people that lost their stores including people who were third generation Chrysler dealers. We're not talking super wealthy people, were talking about people that owned profitable businesses. Businesses that supported families, towns, little league teams, etc.
And a lot of those dealers had just gone to bat for Chrysler by improving their facilities, taking extra parts that they didn't need, taking extra cars that they didn't need, etc. they stepped up to the plate to help out and they got shafted.
And what compensation did they get? Nothing. The government controlled takeover of Chrysler compensated them not one red cent for their businesses. What about the dealer that I knew who had worked for decades to build his Jeep store, and was putting a deal together to sell it as he was 68 and wanted to retire? He had a deal on the place for $2,500,000; it WAS his retirement! Then all of a sudden the dealership is terminated, he is left with nothing and the buyer? Well he owned a Dodge store and Chrysler then GAVE him the Jeep franchise!
And when the dust settled one of our largest corporations is now foreign owned.... Granted Marchionne is a genius, and I'm a huge fan but its not nice to see happen.
Yeah, I'm a real big fan of what happened.
Captain Cadillac said:
And when the dust settled one of our largest corporations is now foreign owned.... Granted Marchionne is a genius, and I'm a huge fan but its not nice to see happen.
Yeah, I'm a real big fan of what happened.
And yet the alternative was no more Chrysler at all because there simply wasn't the private capital (or will) available to save it. Romney's hindsight is irrelevant, Chrysler was bust and nobody was stepping up to rescue it. It needed Obama's belief and then Marcionne's genius to sort it out and return it to a position where it is now moving forward with great new products and a great future. Yeah, I'm a real big fan of what happened.
Marcionne should be given the keys to the city of Detroit. And Turin!
Here's something to remember about Romney that get's missed in the fog of the lies that he tells.
He was an incredibly poor and unpopular one term governor of Mass. He got out after one term because he had no chance of being re-elected. To hear him speak you would think he was loved and revered in Mass, the opposite is true and he will be soundly beaten by Obama there.
When Romney left office his approval rating was down to 34% and he was ranked 48th of 50 amongst US state governors. When Romney came in to office Mass ranked 36th in job creation, when he left 4 short years later they ranked 47th. He was a job killer, not a job creator. His only contribution of worth was Romneycare, something he now dare not mention.
Romney was so unpopular that his Lt Gov, Kerry Healey, who ran in his stead was thrashed in the next election, garnering only 35% of the vote and breaking a run of 4 republican voters.
Romney was a disaster as a Governor and he would be a disaster as president.
Mermaid said:
New York Times endorses Obama, Des Moines Register endorses Romney. Obama must be quaking in his boots. 
Good news on the endorsement front - in the red red state of Indiana the Indianapolis Star has today endorsed the moderate democrat Joe Donnelly in his race against tea party wacko and rape apologist Richard Mourdock. Should be the final nail in Mourdock's coffin.
unrepentant said:
Romney was a disaster as a Governor and he would be a disaster as president.
Speaking of disasters, the way Benghazi was handled was pretty poor. There were live feeds of information to all key personnel and ample opportunities to send the military in, yet the refusal to do so at the very highest level effectively sealed the fate of the Ambassador & embassy personnel - death.High unemployment, a $1 trillion budget deficit a year, GNP growth purely by adding government employees and acting like a bunch of cowards in the face of a terrorist attack isn't a legacy to be proud of.
Muntu said:
unrepentant said:
New York Times endorses Obama, Des Moines Register endorses Romney. Obama must be quaking in his boots.
A NYT endoesement is relatively meaningless at this point. Given that whoever wins Ohio wins the election, you are probably right about Obama. Countdown said:
XCP said:
There really are some nutjobs in US politics aren't there.
Definitely.However I have yet to see a nut job on the Democrat side. ( Not saying there isn't, mind. Just they seem a comparatively rational bunch compared to the nutters on the GOP fringe).
On the GOP side as an example we have;
Richard Mourdock who thinks rape is "God's will"
Todd Aiken who thinks that there is "legitimate rape" and presumably some other sort.
Rick Santorum who compared homosexuality to bestiality.
Rep Steve King who has "never heard" of a pregnancy resulting from rape.
Paul Ryan who agrees totally with Todd Aiken and co-sponsored a bill with him to redefine rape.
Tom Smith who claimed that having a child out of wedlock was "analogous to rape".
Michelle Bachmann for whom it's difficult single out just one wacko view but whose claim that the HPV vaccine causes "mental retardation" is pretty out there.
Sarah Palin who shares the most extreme views on abortion and doesn't believe in evolution and believes that creationism should be taught in schools.
Rick Perry who believes that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice.
None of those are "fringe" - they are all very mainstream in the GOP establishment.
On the dem side we have
?
Halb said:
The 'nutjobs' tend to be religious, that's the point of religion.
Plenty of democrats are religious but very few religious democrats tend to be zealots. The republicans for some reason seem to attract the real whackos whereas democrats by and large tend to be more pragmatic and less bound by ideology. It wasn't always the case, there used to be a lot of pragmatists in the GOP. Unfortunately great politicians like Olympia Snowe and Richard Lugar have been driven out by the zealots who have taken over the republican party. It's a shame but it's a fact.Guam said:
Not exclusively check out some of these from the other side.
http://www.westernjournalism.com/exclusive-investi...
Holdren is a doozy!
"Supports gun control"? "Works for George Soros"? Truly scary people http://www.westernjournalism.com/exclusive-investi...
Holdren is a doozy!
Steve Baldwin appears to be a moron.
He wrote this.
Book Review said:
Lying, bribing, subverting election laws, payoffs, aiding the nation’s enemies, seeking the abrogation of the U.S. Constitution – which of these does not fall under the “high crimes and misdemeanors” required in the nation’s founding documents for the removal of a sitting president, asks a new special report.
“The Case for Impeachment: Why Barack Hussein Obama Should be Impeached to Save America” by Steven Baldwin covers all of these issues and more in making its arguments.
“This is the beginning of the end for the United States unless the people exercise their precious remaining liberties and stand and demand that their elected representatives impeach this president before further mortal damage is inflicted upon America,” the report concludes.
He's a moron.“The Case for Impeachment: Why Barack Hussein Obama Should be Impeached to Save America” by Steven Baldwin covers all of these issues and more in making its arguments.
“This is the beginning of the end for the United States unless the people exercise their precious remaining liberties and stand and demand that their elected representatives impeach this president before further mortal damage is inflicted upon America,” the report concludes.
unrepentant said:
Countdown said:
XCP said:
There really are some nutjobs in US politics aren't there.
Definitely.However I have yet to see a nut job on the Democrat side. ( Not saying there isn't, mind. Just they seem a comparatively rational bunch compared to the nutters on the GOP fringe).
On the GOP side as an example we have;
Richard Mourdock who thinks rape is "God's will"
Todd Aiken who thinks that there is "legitimate rape" and presumably some other sort.
Rick Santorum who compared homosexuality to bestiality.
Rep Steve King who has "never heard" of a pregnancy resulting from rape.
Paul Ryan who agrees totally with Todd Aiken and co-sponsored a bill with him to redefine rape.
Tom Smith who claimed that having a child out of wedlock was "analogous to rape".
Michelle Bachmann for whom it's difficult single out just one wacko view but whose claim that the HPV vaccine causes "mental retardation" is pretty out there.
Sarah Palin who shares the most extreme views on abortion and doesn't believe in evolution and believes that creationism should be taught in schools.
Rick Perry who believes that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice.
None of those are "fringe" - they are all very mainstream in the GOP establishment.
On the dem side we have
?
Guam said:
Perhaps but some of his concerns about Holdren are borne out by Holdrens own well publicised views.
Fair enough. I accept it might just be my lefty bias but most of the Dems don't seem extreme ( to me) and they're certainly not Governors or VP candidates. Whereas the GOP nutjobs ARE.....As I've said before I don't think Mitts a bad person or even a bad candidate- but he doesn't represent mainstream GOP (IMO)
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