US Elections 2012 Obama v Romney Official Thread

[longblackcoat]

unrepentant said:

Mermaid said:

unrepentant said:

Never mind Willard, it's nearly over and in another week you can retire for good and you won't have to dodge any more pesky questions on policy.

Serious question - do you think Obama is very good for the country or is it that Romney would be bad for the country?

I've detailed my reasons for supporting Obama here before but I think, given the quite appalling financial mess he inherited, (people seem to forget what a poisoned chalice he received) he has absolutely done a good job for the country. I would like to have seen him close Gitmo and I think he is sometimes too concillatory but he has made the tough decisions and stuck with them. He has done most of what he has had to do whilst saddled with a republican house whose stated aim (and it's every action) is to obstruct him. People can argue that he said he would do this and that more quickly but I defy anyone to produce a list of policy positions that he has held that he has reversed.

Romney on the other hand is the opposite. It's hard to keep up with any of his positions as he changes them almost weekly. He is completely without integrity and is happy to tell any untruth to get elected. He's the worst sort of slippery Blairite politician. He's also the opposite of what he claims to be. Take job creation - he shed as many jobs as he created at Bain and as Governor of Massachusetts his record is truly appalling. He took over a state ranked 36th for job creation and left one ranked 47th. He also left office with a terrible job approval rating that ranked him 48 out of 50 governors. That's his record of public service - terrible job creation and a job approval rating of 35%. No wonder Obama is beating him in Mass by an even bigger margin than he beat McCain!

Let's say you're right about Obama and Romney's overall worth or lack of it; how then, do you explain Romney's support? Obama should be absolutely walking this election, cruising to victory, yet it's entirely possible that he'll only just squeeze a second term, and that without an overall majority.

Let's put it another way: if the Republicans had chosen a mainstream-religious person, who was just a bit more likeable, they'd have the White House this time next week. And that's surely a massive worry for the Democrats - they simply can't keep relying on the Republicans to keep producing candidates this voter-unfriendly.

[Mermaid]

unrepentant said:

I've detailed my reasons for supporting Obama here before but I think, given the quite appalling financial mess he inherited, (people seem to forget what a poisoned chalice he received) he has absolutely done a good job for the country. I would like to have seen him close Gitmo and I think he is sometimes too concillatory but he has made the tough decisions and stuck with them. He has done most of what he has had to do whilst saddled with a republican house whose stated aim (and it's every action) is to obstruct him. People can argue that he said he would do this and that more quickly but I defy anyone to produce a list of policy positions that he has held that he has reversed.

Romney on the other hand is the opposite. It's hard to keep up with any of his positions as he changes them almost weekly. He is completely without integrity and is happy to tell any untruth to get elected. He's the worst sort of slippery Blairite politician. He's also the opposite of what he claims to be. Take job creation - he shed as many jobs as he created at Bain and as Governor of Massachusetts his record is truly appalling. He took over a state ranked 36th for job creation and left one ranked 47th. He also left office with a terrible job approval rating that ranked him 48 out of 50 governors. That's his record of public service - terrible job creation and a job approval rating of 35%. No wonder Obama is beating him in Mass by an even bigger margin than he beat McCain!

Thanks for explaining your position, will be gutting for you if Romney gets elected.

[unrepentant]

longblackcoat said:

Let's say you're right about Obama and Romney's overall worth or lack of it; how then, do you explain Romney's support? Obama should be absolutely walking this election, cruising to victory, yet it's entirely possible that he'll only just squeeze a second term, and that without an overall majority.

Let's put it another way: if the Republicans had chosen a mainstream-religious person, who was just a bit more likeable, they'd have the White House this time next week. And that's surely a massive worry for the Democrats - they simply can't keep relying on the Republicans to keep producing candidates this voter-unfriendly.

We had a global economic meltdown in 08. Look at the politicians who were elected in the aftermath of that. They had an almost impossible task and are struggling with popularity. You think David Cameron would be elected if there was an election tomorrow? Obama has had a very difficult job and under those circumstances his popularity was bound to wane. I happen to still think that he will win a comfortable victory this time - there's no such thing as no overall majority here, you either win 270 electoral college votes or you lose.

Here's the problam with the republicans. A likeable mainstream moderate can't win their nomination. To stand a chance of getting nominated you have to move hard right and accept all the social dogma that goes with it. Christie may break that mould in 2016, we'll see.

[unrepentant]

Mermaid said:

Thanks for explaining your position, will be gutting for you if Romney gets elected.

Gutting? Not really. It will have relatively little impact on me. I'll pay a little more tax because for sure he's lied through his teeth about that but overall it won't make a lot of difference to me. You see, I'm not poor, I'm not from a minority, I don't have school age children, I have health insurance, I don't have a pre existing medical condition, I have a job, I'm all right Jack to be honest. Now if I was poor, black, without health insurance, sick, unemployed or in any other way disadvantaged - then I'd be seriously gutted.

[Art0ir]

Honestly the spin portrayed by the media about Christie working with Obama is everything that is wrong with politics today.

Politicians are elected to serve the people. It rarely works that way, but it seems this is one of those rare cases. From how I see it, Christie's only priority right now is the welfare of NJ and I'm sure he won't give a single damn about the presidential elections over the next few days.

[unrepentant]

Art0ir said:

Honestly the spin portrayed by the media about Christie working with Obama is everything that is wrong with politics today.

Politicians are elected to serve the people. It rarely works that way, but it seems this is one of those rare cases. From how I see it, Christie's only priority right now is the welfare of NJ and I'm sure he won't give a single damn about the presidential elections over the next few days.

Eh? If you read everything that's been written - that's exactly what's been said! No spin, just facts. The only people that tried to spin it were the morons at FOX who tried to get Christie to politicize it by saying he wanted Romney to get involved. Christie was clearly digusted with them. Obama is doing his job, Christie is doing his and nobody else has tried to suggest anything different.

[Art0ir]

unrepentant said:

Eh? If you read everything that's been written - that's exactly what's been said! No spin, just facts. The only people that tried to spin it were the morons at FOX who tried to get Christie to politicize it by saying he wanted Romney to get involved. Christie was clearly digusted with them. Obama is doing his job, Christie is doing his and nobody else has tried to suggest anything different.

Art0ir said:

Honestly the spin portrayed by the media

[unrepentant]

Mermaid said:

Serious question - do you think Obama is very good for the country or is it that Romney would be bad for the country?

Mermaid, I just read this. It's far more eloquent than any of my ramblings but for the most part sums up a lot of what I think about Obama.

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/10/barack-obama-...

[Mermaid]

[Captain Cadillac]

Colonial said:

Apart from your last paragraph I agree with that.

Very honest response which I can respect.

Well I am downright scared of a second Obama term if things continue at their current rate.

Are we going to continue to have record trade deficits with China? Are we going to continue with trillion dollar budget deficits? Are we going to continue with spending programs that we can't afford? Is net unemployment going to continue to grow?

I'm very concerned that the country is headed for bankruptcy.

[unrepentant]

Captain Cadillac said:

Are we going to continue to have record trade deficits with China? Are we going to continue with trillion dollar budget deficits? Are we going to continue with spending programs that we can't afford? Is net unemployment going to continue to grow?

How would you propose that we reduce the trade defecit with China?

The defecit is a result of the economic situation inherited by the current government from the previous Bush government. It is also a result of the hugely expensive and unbudgeted wars that Bush signed up to and Obama has now nearly completely extricated us from. The original bailout ($700 billion to rescue Wall St) was signed off by the previous president, G W Bush. The stimulus was essential to prevent the country falling into depression and following Europe into double dip recession.

What programs would you like to cut? Medicare? (Romney would butcher it). Medicaid? (Romney will butcher it). Some other programs that affects the poor and disadvanted? (Romney would butcher them). What about cutting the tax breaks for the very richest Americans and the big oil companies? (NO? Really?). You're obviously not short of the next dollar skipper - how about paying a little more tax to reduce the defecit? I'm willing to, how about you?

Unemployment is falling and real, private sector, jobs have grown for 30 plus months in succession.

The economy is actually doing well - we have job growth, house prices are rising, corporate profits are at an all time high, the stock market is booming and public confidence is rising again. What we can't afford to do is go back to the failed policies of the republicans that got us into this mess to start with.

[davepoth]

A trade deficit with China isn't necessarily a bad thing anyway - they have a relatively small consumer base, and make lots of cheap consumer electronics which are not economically viable to make in the USA. Until China has enough people to buy things that the US can make a profit by selling there's no point worrying about it.

The overall trade deficit is the thing that matters.

[unrepentant]

While the president and governor Christie were doing presidential / gubernatorial things these past few days Willard has become a bit of a spare part. It's been difficult for him as he is obviously utterly irrelevant and his campaign felt that it would be unseemly to be seen to be campaigning too overtly at this time.

So Willard, ever the cynical opportunist, decided to turn other peoples suffering into a photo op by getting people to donate tinned food at his rally in Kettering Ohio. But heh, many people wouldn't bring any tinned goods and that would look bad becuase it was Mitt who had "inspired" them to help. So Romney staffers went to Walmart and bought $5k worth of tinned goods and handed them to people as they lined up. They then gave them to Mitt who thanked them for their generosity! Willard then told the assembled throng (actually a very tiny crowd) that their "generosity" would be welcomed by the Red Cross in err... "I think New Jersey".

Now, just like Ryan's faked soup kitchen photo op (where's Ryan by the way, he's disappeared) this was cynical and actually very irresponsible. Firstly it's cynical and disgusting to try and make political capital out of a tragedy but Romney is no stranger to that scenario (remember Benghazi). Secondly it's irresponsible because the Red Cross DO NOT WANT tinned goods because they don't have the people to sort and distribute them and they really don't have a use for them. What they need is blood and cash but that wouldn't provide Mitt with his photo op.............

[speedy_thrills]

To be fair I've never seen a politician miss a photo opportunity from either side. Of course it's all staged and planned beforehand or you get incidents like Brown's the "bigoted old woman" and that weird attention seeking plumber guy when Obama was first trying to get elected.

[jeff m2]

My wife was a little "distressed" when she heard Christie praising Obama, she said maybe the Secret Service have a gun in his back.

I think Christie was actually a little emotional and his comments were sincere and from the heart.
And of course he needs numero uno to shell out some cash.

A side of Christie not previously seen

With regard to him being a future Pres candidate, we would rather keep him here.
He has also stated quite strongly "no". (I know they all do that)

[Mermaid]

Stock market performance favours Obama

[Wadeski]

I do hope not, it will be too depressing to live here with the "rape is OK!" lot in power. Two fingers to food stamps and medicaid, lets extend the bush tax cuts and start bombing Iran...

I still think Obama will squeak it.

[unrepentant]

Wadeski said:

I do hope not, it will be too depressing to live here with the "rape is OK!" lot in power. Two fingers to food stamps and medicaid, lets extend the bush tax cuts and start bombing Iran...

I still think Obama will squeak it.

As we go into the last week the RCP national poll of polls is now tied and Obama is up in 9 out of the 12 states that matter with Virginia tied. Even the new pro Romney FOX poll no longer shows Romney with a national lead. More importantly the bookies have lengthened the odds on Romney and shortened the odds on Obama. Looking at the electoral college it's almost impossible to see a way for Romney to win short of a miracle. The Axe is confident enough when challenged on Pennsylvania, Michigan and Minnesota to say he'll shave off his' 'tache of 40 years if Obama loses any of them and Axe is fond of that 'tache! I'm beginning to agree with some earlier posters that Obama could end up some way over 300 which will be a stunning victory.

[jeff m2]

unrepentant said:

Red Cross DO NOT WANT tinned goods because they don't have the people to sort and distribute them and they really don't have a use for them. What they need is blood and cash but that wouldn't provide Mitt with his photo op.............

Are you paid ?

Shelters always ask for tinned goods.
What planet are you on.
Spokesman (actually a woman)for the Red Cross said they do not need blood for New York, New Jersey.
The only reason they need blood is because their unit count is down due to blood drives being cancelled.
We do not need blood.
This is NOT a medical emergency.

Campaign but please stop misleading people (again)

[unrepentant]

speedy_thrills said:

To be fair I've never seen a politician miss a photo opportunity from either side. Of course it's all staged and planned beforehand or you get incidents like Brown's the "bigoted old woman" and that weird attention seeking plumber guy when Obama was first trying to get elected.

That weird attention seeking plumber guy "Joe the Plumber" (real name Samuel Wurzelbacher and he's not actually a plumber) is now a republican candidate!!!! He's standing for congress in Ohio's 9th congressional district where he's going to have his ass handed to him on Nov 6th by a very good democratic incumbent. The republicans will let any right wing whacko run!