US Elections 2012 Obama v Romney Official Thread

US Elections 2012 Obama v Romney Official Thread

Author
Discussion

GavinPearson

5,715 posts

250 months

Monday 29th October 2012
quotequote all
unrepentant said:
Michelle Bachmann for whom it's difficult single out just one wacko view but whose claim that the HPV vaccine causes "mental retardation" is pretty out there.
Actually... it isn't.

Gardasil (trade name for HPV vaccine in the USA) has had a number of vaccine damage cases associated with it. In the worst instances this was death. See:
http://truthaboutgardasil.org/memorial/

Captain Cadillac

2,974 posts

186 months

Monday 29th October 2012
quotequote all
GavinPearson said:
unrepentant said:
Romney was a disaster as a Governor and he would be a disaster as president.
Speaking of disasters, the way Benghazi was handled was pretty poor. There were live feeds of information to all key personnel and ample opportunities to send the military in, yet the refusal to do so at the very highest level effectively sealed the fate of the Ambassador & embassy personnel - death.

High unemployment, a $1 trillion budget deficit a year, GNP growth purely by adding government employees and acting like a bunch of cowards in the face of a terrorist attack isn't a legacy to be proud of.
Gavin, don't try speaking about facts and Obamas record with UR, he just ignores it.

Captain Cadillac

2,974 posts

186 months

Monday 29th October 2012
quotequote all
unrepentant said:
New York Times endorses Obama, Des Moines Register endorses Romney. Obama must be quaking in his boots. hehe

Good news on the endorsement front - in the red red state of Indiana the Indianapolis Star has today endorsed the moderate democrat Joe Donnelly in his race against tea party wacko and rape apologist Richard Mourdock. Should be the final nail in Mourdock's coffin.
NY Times endorsing Obama is like someone saying that water is wet. Why on earth you're acting like this is some sort of victory for Obama is beyond me as this would only be news if they DIDN'T endorse him.

unrepentant

Original Poster:

21,212 posts

255 months

Monday 29th October 2012
quotequote all
jeff m2 said:
unrepentant said:
Countdown said:
XCP said:
There really are some nutjobs in US politics aren't there.
Definitely.

However I have yet to see a nut job on the Democrat side. ( Not saying there isn't, mind. Just they seem a comparatively rational bunch compared to the nutters on the GOP fringe).
Hmm... Lets's see.

On the GOP side as an example we have;

Richard Mourdock who thinks rape is "God's will"

Todd Aiken who thinks that there is "legitimate rape" and presumably some other sort.

Rick Santorum who compared homosexuality to bestiality.

Rep Steve King who has "never heard" of a pregnancy resulting from rape.

Paul Ryan who agrees totally with Todd Aiken and co-sponsored a bill with him to redefine rape.

Tom Smith who claimed that having a child out of wedlock was "analogous to rape".

Michelle Bachmann for whom it's difficult single out just one wacko view but whose claim that the HPV vaccine causes "mental retardation" is pretty out there.

Sarah Palin who shares the most extreme views on abortion and doesn't believe in evolution and believes that creationism should be taught in schools.

Rick Perry who believes that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice.

None of those are "fringe" - they are all very mainstream in the GOP establishment.

On the dem side we have

?
Your good selfbiggrin
Steady.

Seriously though, I'm a conservative. I voted for Thatcher, Major and even the boy Hague (I really voted for him, he was my MP last time I voted!). I'v owned 4 TVR's, 5 Jags, 2 Range Rovers, drive a 2012 Jag XJ as my daily driver and enjoy driving it "enthusiastically", wear cufflinks with my suit, enjoy eating out and the good things in life generally, owned my own company for 10 years and was a main board director of a plc for many years. My brother is a left leaning senior (very) civil servant and thinks I'm basically a raving right winger.

And yet I live in the USA where I'm not a conservative at all. I believe that a woman has the right to choose what happens to her body (rather than a bunch of old men), I believe that my gay friends should have the same rights as me, I'd prefer it if the man in the street didn't have access to assault weapons, I don't believe in the death penalty (and don't understand how most people who are "pro life" believe in executing people), I believe that healthcare is a personal responsibility but that everyone should be required to be responsible and nobody should be denied, I believe in evolution, I don't believe that religious dogma has any place in government, I believe that everyone is equal be they black, white, brown, male, female, gay, straight, able bodied, disabled, poor, rich or destitute and I'm happy to pay my taxes and accept that those less fortunate than me may pay less or none at all. For those and many other reasons I'm a democrat.

How about you?

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Monday 29th October 2012
quotequote all
unrepentant said:
...for those and many other reasons I'm a democrat.

How about you?
I guess the problem is that the GOP have got themselves too mired in social conservatism to find a way out. That social conservatism is setting policy across the board (education, welfare, defence, energy, infrastructure, finance and more) and it doesn't attract voters outside of the core. A more centrist outlook this time round would have made the republicans a dead certainty for the White House. Hopefully they'll ask some serious questions after the election.

DJRC

23,563 posts

235 months

Monday 29th October 2012
quotequote all
unrepentant said:
jeff m2 said:
unrepentant said:
Countdown said:
XCP said:
There really are some nutjobs in US politics aren't there.
Definitely.

However I have yet to see a nut job on the Democrat side. ( Not saying there isn't, mind. Just they seem a comparatively rational bunch compared to the nutters on the GOP fringe).
Hmm... Lets's see.

On the GOP side as an example we have;

Richard Mourdock who thinks rape is "God's will"

Todd Aiken who thinks that there is "legitimate rape" and presumably some other sort.

Rick Santorum who compared homosexuality to bestiality.

Rep Steve King who has "never heard" of a pregnancy resulting from rape.

Paul Ryan who agrees totally with Todd Aiken and co-sponsored a bill with him to redefine rape.

Tom Smith who claimed that having a child out of wedlock was "analogous to rape".

Michelle Bachmann for whom it's difficult single out just one wacko view but whose claim that the HPV vaccine causes "mental retardation" is pretty out there.

Sarah Palin who shares the most extreme views on abortion and doesn't believe in evolution and believes that creationism should be taught in schools.

Rick Perry who believes that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice.

None of those are "fringe" - they are all very mainstream in the GOP establishment.

On the dem side we have

?
Your good selfbiggrin
Steady.

Seriously though, I'm a conservative. I voted for Thatcher, Major and even the boy Hague (I really voted for him, he was my MP last time I voted!). I'v owned 4 TVR's, 5 Jags, 2 Range Rovers, drive a 2012 Jag XJ as my daily driver and enjoy driving it "enthusiastically", wear cufflinks with my suit, enjoy eating out and the good things in life generally, owned my own company for 10 years and was a main board director of a plc for many years. My brother is a left leaning senior (very) civil servant and thinks I'm basically a raving right winger.

And yet I live in the USA where I'm not a conservative at all. I believe that a woman has the right to choose what happens to her body (rather than a bunch of old men), I believe that my gay friends should have the same rights as me, I'd prefer it if the man in the street didn't have access to assault weapons, I don't believe in the death penalty (and don't understand how most people who are "pro life" believe in executing people), I believe that healthcare is a personal responsibility but that everyone should be required to be responsible and nobody should be denied, I believe in evolution, I don't believe that religious dogma has any place in government, I believe that everyone is equal be they black, white, brown, male, female, gay, straight, able bodied, disabled, poor, rich or destitute and I'm happy to pay my taxes and accept that those less fortunate than me may pay less or none at all. For those and many other reasons I'm a democrat.

How about you?
I try not to give a fk about other people, it stops me thinking I know best about how their lives should work. I find this generally puts me in a catagory of 1.

Countdown

39,688 posts

195 months

Monday 29th October 2012
quotequote all
Guam said:
Perhaps but some of his concerns about Holdren are borne out by Holdrens own well publicised views.
Guam -I'm not an expert on Holdrens views but the following link suggests he might not be as bad as he's painted?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements...

On a related note how the merry heck do people like Beck and Limbaugh get airtime? Surely they do more harm than good to moderate Republicans?

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Monday 29th October 2012
quotequote all
davepoth said:
I guess the problem is that the GOP have got themselves too mired in social conservatism to find a way out. That social conservatism is setting policy across the board (education, welfare, defence, energy, infrastructure, finance and more) and it doesn't attract voters outside of the core. A more centrist outlook this time round would have made the republicans a dead certainty for the White House. Hopefully they'll ask some serious questions after the election.
A world view based on 2000 year old scribblings doesn't really work in sensible world.biggrin

Mermaid

21,492 posts

170 months

Monday 29th October 2012
quotequote all
Hurricane Sandy may dominate headlines today but US non-farm payrolls data should dictate news towards the end of the week; figures that could have a huge influence on next week’s US presidential election results.

So will they be "tweaked" again?

Wadeski

8,132 posts

212 months

Monday 29th October 2012
quotequote all
they'll only be being "tweaked" if they are good. if they are bad its the COLD HARD FACTS OF FAILURE hehe

because its absolutely impossible for the American economy to be on the rebound after a serious depresssion - not with a black muslim socialist president in charge wink

Muntu

7,631 posts

198 months

Monday 29th October 2012
quotequote all

unrepentant

Original Poster:

21,212 posts

255 months

Monday 29th October 2012
quotequote all
Wadeski said:
they'll only be being "tweaked" if they are good. if they are bad its the COLD HARD FACTS OF FAILURE hehe

because its absolutely impossible for the American economy to be on the rebound after a serious depresssion - not with a black muslim socialist president in charge wink
yes Absolutely impossible with that non American black commie in charge.

Republicans (ignoring all the FACTS) condemn Obama for not completely fixing the bust economy he inherited in 4 years. Romney says his plan will fix it in "10-12 years" and they think he's the messiah! rofl

Muntu

7,631 posts

198 months

Monday 29th October 2012
quotequote all
unrepentant said:
yes Absolutely impossible with that non American black commie in charge.

Republicans (ignoring all the FACTS) condemn Obama for not completely fixing the bust economy he inherited in 4 years. Romney says his plan will fix it in "10-12 years" and they think he's the messiah! rofl
Oddly, Chicago Jesus said he would sort it in 4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmRgaKfWMPA

Perhaps it was above his pay grade.

unrepentant

Original Poster:

21,212 posts

255 months

Monday 29th October 2012
quotequote all
Jeff, Captain Caddilac and anyone else on the north east coast, hope you guys have the hatches battened down, this looks nasty. Stay safe.

Mermaid

21,492 posts

170 months

Monday 29th October 2012
quotequote all
Guam said:
I would Second that, I reckon Jimbeaux is pretty busy right now in contingency planning!
It would be good to hear from Jim.

Mermaid

21,492 posts

170 months

Monday 29th October 2012
quotequote all

beer

Captain Cadillac

2,974 posts

186 months

Monday 29th October 2012
quotequote all
Thanks guys!

It's starting to blow here.. 25-30mph winds, light rain... but tonight is going to be the telling factor. Thankfully I am on high ground and the cars have all been very safely secured, either up on lifts or in a multi story car park.

Captain Cadillac

2,974 posts

186 months

Monday 29th October 2012
quotequote all
unrepentant said:
Steady.

Seriously though, I'm a conservative. I voted for Thatcher, Major and even the boy Hague (I really voted for him, he was my MP last time I voted!). I'v owned 4 TVR's, 5 Jags, 2 Range Rovers, drive a 2012 Jag XJ as my daily driver and enjoy driving it "enthusiastically", wear cufflinks with my suit, enjoy eating out and the good things in life generally, owned my own company for 10 years and was a main board director of a plc for many years. My brother is a left leaning senior (very) civil servant and thinks I'm basically a raving right winger.

And yet I live in the USA where I'm not a conservative at all. I believe that a woman has the right to choose what happens to her body (rather than a bunch of old men), I believe that my gay friends should have the same rights as me, I'd prefer it if the man in the street didn't have access to assault weapons, I don't believe in the death penalty (and don't understand how most people who are "pro life" believe in executing people), I believe that healthcare is a personal responsibility but that everyone should be required to be responsible and nobody should be denied, I believe in evolution, I don't believe that religious dogma has any place in government, I believe that everyone is equal be they black, white, brown, male, female, gay, straight, able bodied, disabled, poor, rich or destitute and I'm happy to pay my taxes and accept that those less fortunate than me may pay less or none at all. For those and many other reasons I'm a democrat.

How about you?
I agree with a lot of that actually although I have a more libertarian slant myself....

I personally think abortion is murder and am opposed to it, PERSONALLY. That being said, I am a 37 year old male; I don't see myself having to worry about abortion as I doubt my girlfriend is going to get me pregnant. It's not a choice that I will ever have to make so it's really none of my business. If you don't want an abortion, don't have one but who the hell am I to say one way or another?

Same with Gay marriage. I am not gay, but there's no reason that gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry.

What these issues boil down to is simple:

Do gay people getting married or some 16 year old girl in Ohio getting an abortion directly affect my life? No. No they don't.

Death penalty? I am very much in favor of it. If you rape and murder a child you don't deserve to live. Period. I am vehemently opposed to this 10 years or more of appeals, it's horsest. If the sentenced waives his right to appeal they should drag him behind the courthouse and put a bullet in his head.

I also believe in evolution, the earth is NOT 4,000 years old. I also believe that the Bible was written in dramatically different times and lots of artistic license, if you will, was taken in writing it to explain the then unexplainable.

Religion has no place in government, and that's why the constitution protects us from such nonsense. Separation of Church and state is something I am a huge fan of. Partially because as a Jew I am in the vast minority.

Health care is simple. First, health care costs (Which have gone up nearly 30% under Obama) are largely run up in this country due to out of control malpractice insurance premiums, and it's the Democrats who vehemently oppose tort reform. Secondly, yes, socialized health care would be nice. However Americans simply aren't prepared to pay for it. Look at the UK, is the NHS free? The hell it is, you pay NI Contributions.. nothing in life is free.

I am not a huge Romney fan, I am enthusiastically voting for him because, IMO, Obama has completely failed in his job as a president.

Obama has done, in large part, the opposite of what he claimed he would do when elected and by his own words does not deserve another four years. On top of that he has handled the economy terribly and done a horrible job of bringing the parties together as well as taking virtually zero responsibility for his actions.

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Monday 29th October 2012
quotequote all
Captain Cadillac said:
Health care is simple. First, health care costs (Which have gone up nearly 30% under Obama) are largely run up in this country due to out of control malpractice insurance premiums, and it's the Democrats who vehemently oppose tort reform. Secondly, yes, socialized health care would be nice. However Americans simply aren't prepared to pay for it. Look at the UK, is the NHS free? The hell it is, you pay NI Contributions.. nothing in life is free.
Here's an interesting fact for you. A higher proportion of US government spending is spent on healthcare than in the UK. The figures bear it out, something like 13% in the USA and 11% in the UK. Essentially the USA is paying enough in tax for fully socialized healthcare, but not getting it.

jeff m2

2,060 posts

150 months

Monday 29th October 2012
quotequote all
unrepentant said:
Steady.

Seriously though, I'm a conservative. I voted for Thatcher, Major and even the boy Hague (I really voted for him, he was my MP last time I voted!). I'v owned 4 TVR's, 5 Jags, 2 Range Rovers, drive a 2012 Jag XJ as my daily driver and enjoy driving it "enthusiastically", wear cufflinks with my suit, enjoy eating out and the good things in life generally, owned my own company for 10 years and was a main board director of a plc for many years. My brother is a left leaning senior (very) civil servant and thinks I'm basically a raving right winger.

And yet I live in the USA where I'm not a conservative at all. I believe that a woman has the right to choose what happens to her body (rather than a bunch of old men), I believe that my gay friends should have the same rights as me, I'd prefer it if the man in the street didn't have access to assault weapons, I don't believe in the death penalty (and don't understand how most people who are "pro life" believe in executing people), I believe that healthcare is a personal responsibility but that everyone should be required to be responsible and nobody should be denied, I believe in evolution, I don't believe that religious dogma has any place in government, I believe that everyone is equal be they black, white, brown, male, female, gay, straight, able bodied, disabled, poor, rich or destitute and I'm happy to pay my taxes and accept that those less fortunate than me may pay less or none at all. For those and many other reasons I'm a democrat.

How about you?
I'm fairly confident your brother is a product of Oxford.smile
Without being too specific as I don't like to be googled. Although I do know/have met half a dozen PHers.
Basically, I was a Computer System Engineer. I was IMHO overtaxed in UK, left, floated around a while, ended up here.
Religion evolution, I really don't care, if pushed I would go "evolution" but I have no problem with people going to church when they really should be waxing their cars.
Abortion, choice.....
Choice really sums me up.
I would vote for the Choice party if there was one.

Gun owner, I kill paper and clays, I am a life member of the NRA for convenience. What a lot of people don't realise is that competerive shooters have to belong to the NRA as they sanction everything and gun club insurance is "ungettable" if you are out of the loop.
However, the NRA tends to forget who pays them and is often beating the wrong drum IMO.
We shoot minimum 500rounds a week, hunters ten a year.
Best to think of shooting as golf without the walking. Although we do walk a little.

What I like is a level playing field, no pay to play.

The States operate on fixed budgets, suprises are inconvenient at best. So I am for less blanket impositions.

Where we differ, I think, Romney has fought his way past the religous right after two tries, I doubt it was easy. I doubt he has enthusiastic support from very big business and multinationals, he does have decent support from medium and small busines who do not have the advantages of the former. However I don't think should Romney get elected they will be greatly rewarded. We shouldn't expect that, but of course many do and are voting for him for the wrong reasons.
Bernake will be gone and easy money from Mr Predictable will dry up.
I expect the Market to stall, a little rise in inflation and a little rise in GDP, if that growth can be sustained, I don't need to expand on that, you can see where I'm going.

Obama, I feel was not the right guy for the job four years ago. (Bad timing)
He confuses the hell out of people, the Bush tax cuts are still there, for years he said they would go. He, you, and I know he couldn't do that and he didn't, but that was what he repeatedly said. Be honest just say we needed to keep them in place (fiscal cliff) If he was honest with people and said these things are still needed, tell them why he would have more respect.
All he had to do was drop the Bush bit.smile

Good chance they will have to be at least partially renewed whoever wins.

Didn't see this yesterday as the Relig Right are currently imposing their wrath on our little democratic state with hurricane Sandy and I was busy preparing.