Muslim protests in UK

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Discussion

Mermaid

21,492 posts

170 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Bill said:
It doesn't mean anything, apart from the obvious point that the alarmists are so short of actual facts they need to make them up.
Agreed.

Table 6 in this report provides many pointers

http://www.spi.ox.ac.uk/fileadmin/documents/pdf/WP...

Countdown

39,689 posts

195 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Mermaid said:
Bill said:
That name thing sounds alarmist smile, but does not mean that the birth rate is not much significantly higher.

Edited by Mermaid on Monday 8th October 13:12
Without wishing to be offensive to anybody IME the only people who can afford to have large families are those on benefits. It needs sorting.

Mermaid

21,492 posts

170 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Countdown said:
Mermaid said:
I expect things will get worse before they get better, but the attitude/action of Muslim elders/spokesmen (like yourself) expressed publicly will help mitigate.
Oi !!!! I'm ONLY 41 furious

wink
Tell that to Alexander, Pitt and so many others - wasn't Cameron ( & Hague) younger than that when he became Tory leader smile

Mermaid

21,492 posts

170 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Countdown said:
Without wishing to be offensive to anybody IME the only people who can afford to have large families are those on benefits. It needs sorting.
That's a very good point - would the UK "immigrants" landscape be a lot different if we did not have the NHS & the benefit culture?

Countdown

39,689 posts

195 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Mermaid said:
Countdown said:
Without wishing to be offensive to anybody IME the only people who can afford to have large families are those on benefits. It needs sorting.
That's a very good point - would the UK "immigrants" landscape be a lot different if we did not have the NHS & the benefit culture?
You'd still have immigrants because of

(a) Historical links; and
(b) Life in the UK is better than in 95% of the Rest of the World.

However IMHO you would have less "gaming" of the benefits system.

essexplumber

7,749 posts

172 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Countdown said:
Mermaid said:
I expect things will get worse before they get better, but the attitude/action of Muslim elders/spokesmen (like yourself) expressed publicly will help mitigate.
Oi !!!! I'm ONLY 41 furious



wink
Only?

Bill

52,472 posts

254 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Mermaid said:
Agreed.

Table 6 in this report provides many pointers

http://www.spi.ox.ac.uk/fileadmin/documents/pdf/WP...
The whole report suggests birth rate is irrelevant to the larger picture.

The Don of Croy

5,975 posts

158 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Bill said:
Is it? Or is it just a sign that muslims lack imagination?

or just made up alarmist bks... http://www.babycentre.co.uk/pregnancy/naming/baby-...
That site only gives results from 'registered babycentre.com' users. Not exactly guaranteed cross section of UK, is it. From selective memory, the original media story / hysteria originated from names used on English issued birth certificates, and was aggregated over all selected spellings of Mo/Muhammed etc.

blindswelledrat

25,257 posts

231 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
The Don of Croy said:
Bill said:
Is it? Or is it just a sign that muslims lack imagination?

or just made up alarmist bks... http://www.babycentre.co.uk/pregnancy/naming/baby-...
That site only gives results from 'registered babycentre.com' users. Not exactly guaranteed cross section of UK, is it. From selective memory, the original media story / hysteria originated from names used on English issued birth certificates, and was aggregated over all selected spellings of Mo/Muhammed etc.
Okay, actual facts from the office of national statistics:

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/publications/re-referenc...

If you total the three variants of Mohammed, it is about the third most popular name.
Merely twisted statistics that only show that muslims arent particularly flexible on names.
TO put it another way, there are only 3 muslim names in the top 100 most popular names and they are ALL Mohamed variants. The statistic is hugely misleading and completely 'daily mail'

kuzushi

226 posts

141 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Bill said:
kuzushi said:
Mermaid said:
Any idea about the population growth rates amongst Muslims/Pakistanis compared to other minorities & the rest of the population?
The fact that a form of Muhammad (spelt various ways: Mohamed, Muhammed etc..)is consistently the most common boys' name in England is a clue to what's going on.
Is it? Or is it just a sign that muslims lack imagination?

or just made up alarmist bks... http://www.babycentre.co.uk/pregnancy/naming/baby-...
The list you post is not representative of the UKas a whole. Nationwide Muhammad or a version of it is the top boys' name.

"The names were drawn from BabyCentre parents who registered with our site in 2011."

blindswelledrat

25,257 posts

231 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
kuzushi said:
The list you post is not representative of the UKas a whole. Nationwide Muhammad or a version of it is the top boys' name.

"The names were drawn from BabyCentre parents who registered with our site in 2011."
Did you really just post that directly below my post?
How you can be so blind to actual facts in your search to post alarmist hand-wringing stuff bewilders me.

Ill say it again

Okay, actual facts from the office of national statistics:

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/publications/re-referenc...

If you total the three variants of Mohammed, it is about the third most popular name.
Merely twisted statistics that only show that muslims arent particularly flexible on names.
TO put it another way, there are only 3 muslim names in the top 100 most popular names and they are ALL Mohamed variants. The statistic is hugely misleading and completely 'daily mail'

kuzushi

226 posts

141 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
blindswelledrat said:
Did you really just post that directly below my post?
How you can be so blind to actual facts in your search to post alarmist hand-wringing stuff bewilders me.

Ill say it again

Okay, actual facts from the office of national statistics:

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/publications/re-referenc...

If you total the three variants of Mohammed, it is about the third most popular name.
Merely twisted statistics that only show that muslims arent particularly flexible on names.
TO put it another way, there are only 3 muslim names in the top 100 most popular names and they are ALL Mohamed variants. The statistic is hugely misleading and completely 'daily mail'
It varies from year to year. Sometimes it comes top, sometimes it comes third. It's not about posting alarmist handwringing stuff. It's an indicator of the reality of the situation. It's funny to say a statistic is misleading. A statistic is a statistic. You have to know how to draw the right conclusions from any statistic. You point out that Muhammad (or variants of it)is the only muslim name in the top 100, which gives more clarification on the situation.

Pesty

42,655 posts

255 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all

Well if this does not get the French up in arms nothing will. The like their Wine.



Yesterday Way Down Market Avignon Nimes, Muslims threatened merchants who sell wine, a butcher who sells pork and charcuterie, as well as merchants who sell "light clothing", and have forbidden to return under pain of death.

A few months ago already, a butcher who nevertheless had a good customer, had disappeared overnight without anyone understanding says a local resident.

In June, the mall market was destroyed by fire, and the locals had created a group to complain about the increasing violence of Muslim youths without nothing effective is done by the municipality.

http://www.dreuz.info/2012/09/scoop-a-nimes-des-co...

Pesty

42,655 posts

255 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
closer to home. This is interesting

Members of a Muslim sect persecuted in Pakistan have called for action to prevent groups from peddling hate against them in the UK.

The Ahmadiyya community in the UK says it is being targeted through various media and in mosques and conferences by behaviour that it says amounts to religious hatred but is not caught by the definition of that offence under UK law.

The community moved its headquarters to the UK in the 1980s after the Pakistani government passed a law forbidding Ahmadis from calling themselves Muslims and curbing their religious practices.

They were also hounded in Pakistan by Islamic groups that have set up UK satellite offices and are doing the same here, according to Naseer Din, president of the London Ahmadiyya community. "They are advocating sectarianism in Pakistan and creating hatred," he said. "These [same] groups are coming here and creating the same hatred … There is indoctrination going on in the Muslim community."

"This view has also prompted opprobrium on Asian community TV channels operating out of the UK. In May this year the media watchdog, Ofcom, found the Manchester-based Asian television network DM Digital to be in breach of rule 4.2 of its broadcasting code, forbidding abusive treatment of religious views, after an Islamic scholar on one of its programmes stated that the late founder of the Ahmadiyya community was "an apostate and one who deserves to be killed". Takbeer TV has also been censured by Ofcom."



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/07/ahmadi...

Edited by Pesty on Monday 8th October 18:56

s1962a

5,263 posts

161 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Pesty said:
closer to home. This is interesting

Members of a Muslim sect persecuted in Pakistan have called for action to prevent groups from peddling hate against them in the UK.

The Ahmadiyya community in the UK says it is being targeted through various media and in mosques and conferences by behaviour that it says amounts to religious hatred but is not caught by the definition of that offence under UK law.

The community moved its headquarters to the UK in the 1980s after the Pakistani government passed a law forbidding Ahmadis from calling themselves Muslims and curbing their religious practices.

They were also hounded in Pakistan by Islamic groups that have set up UK satellite offices and are doing the same here, according to Naseer Din, president of the London Ahmadiyya community. "They are advocating sectarianism in Pakistan and creating hatred," he said. "These [same] groups are coming here and creating the same hatred … There is indoctrination going on in the Muslim community."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/07/ahmadi...
Have you seen these bus adverts?





Thats from the Ahmadiyya community in London

Mermaid

21,492 posts

170 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Pesty said:
Well if this does not get the French up in arms nothing will. The like their Wine.



Yesterday Way Down Market Avignon Nimes, Muslims threatened merchants who sell wine, a butcher who sells pork and charcuterie, as well as merchants who sell "light clothing", and have forbidden to return under pain of death.

A few months ago already, a butcher who nevertheless had a good customer, had disappeared overnight without anyone understanding says a local resident.

In June, the mall market was destroyed by fire, and the locals had created a group to complain about the increasing violence of Muslim youths without nothing effective is done by the municipality.

http://www.dreuz.info/2012/09/scoop-a-nimes-des-co...
Didn't Countdown say:

"How do muslims impose their (our) way of life on others?"

Pesty

42,655 posts

255 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
s1962a said:
Have you seen these bus adverts?

[
Thats from the Ahmadiyya community in London
No, Whats that all about then.

968

11,945 posts

247 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Mermaid said:
Didn't Countdown say:

"How do muslims impose their (our) way of life on others?"
That's France, not the UK. I very much doubt that this sort of thing happens a lot. The very fact that it makes the news suggests that it's a rare occurrence.

Bill

52,472 posts

254 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
968 said:
That's France, not the UK. I very much doubt that this sort of thing happens a lot. The very fact that it makes the news suggests that it's a rare occurrence.
Except I can't find anything about it outside blogs...

Countdown

39,689 posts

195 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Mermaid said:
Pesty said:
Well if this does not get the French up in arms nothing will. The like their Wine.



Yesterday Way Down Market Avignon Nimes, Muslims threatened merchants who sell wine, a butcher who sells pork and charcuterie, as well as merchants who sell "light clothing", and have forbidden to return under pain of death.

A few months ago already, a butcher who nevertheless had a good customer, had disappeared overnight without anyone understanding says a local resident.

In June, the mall market was destroyed by fire, and the locals had created a group to complain about the increasing violence of Muslim youths without nothing effective is done by the municipality.

http://www.dreuz.info/2012/09/scoop-a-nimes-des-co...
Didn't Countdown say:

"How do muslims impose their (our) way of life on others?"
From my very limited French dreuz.info appears to be a far right website. Googling keywords from the article only brings up other extremist websites.

I'm not saying it didn't happen - however it would be useful if somebody could provide links to a mainstream English website?