Muslim protests in UK

[odyssey2200]

Guam said:

Bottom line you are a proffessional football player an employee you dont get the right to put your religion before the needs of the business that employs you in this way!

Whats next having to stopwork for prayers?

If you feel that aggrieved go do something else imho!

Fixed that for you

[Countdown]

Guam said:

Bottom line you are a proffessional football player you dont get the right to put your religion before the needs of the business that employs you in this way!

Whats next having to stop the game for prayers?

If you feel that aggrieved go do something else imho!

Completely agree.

However, a minor point; this is the MCB saying something. None of the players have raised it as an issue. As a religious organisation the MCB has opinions. if they;re something we disagree with surely it's the MCB we should be addressing?

For example - ArchBish of Canterbury suggests all christian bankers should refuse to invest in Wonga.Com. Do we blame the bankers of the AoC ?

[Mermaid]

Marf said:

It'd be nice if the UK was a religion free zone

Ditto the world.

Like I've said before, put a button in front of me which rids the world of religion and I'll happily press it.

Absolutely.

[odyssey2200]

I am willing to make a deal.
I will defend the right of anyone to wear what every they like.

Scarves, Burkas, nightshirts etc

BUT

They must,in return,defend my right to point and laugh out loud.

[Mr_B]

Countdown said:

Guam said:

Bottom line you are a proffessional football player you dont get the right to put your religion before the needs of the business that employs you in this way!

Whats next having to stop the game for prayers?

If you feel that aggrieved go do something else imho!

Completely agree.

However, a minor point; this is the MCB saying something. None of the players have raised it as an issue. As a religious organisation the MCB has opinions. if they;re something we disagree with surely it's the MCB we should be addressing?

For example - ArchBish of Canterbury suggests all christian bankers should refuse to invest in Wonga.Com. Do we blame the bankers of the AoC ?

I think it is the MCB we are addressing. Just another example of tyring to force it's opinion first. If I were in the Islam Club, I think I'd tell them to mind their own and not to try and force the issue, in what looks like them getting in first so the players tow their idea of the religious line.
I get easily confused with this stuff. I thought the MCB were ultra moderate folk of the UK. Yet they want to enforce this Sharia law , but then being moderate they don't want any Sharia law and so few people do in the UK its a non issue.
I won't pretend to fully understand Islam and Sharia, mainly because I don't think anyone can, but how is this Sharia law different to the Sharia law just a few pages back I'm told that no one wants ?

[grumbledoak]

Mr_B said:

I won't pretend to fully understand Islam and Sharia, ...

It's easy. People just make st up as they feel like it and try to justify it after the fact.

[robmlufc]

grumbledoak said:

It's easy. People just make st up as they feel like it and try to justify it after the fact.

Make sure you get offended by anything and everything.

[Countdown]

Mr_B said:

I get easily confused with this stuff. I thought the MCB were ultra moderate folk of the UK. Yet they want to enforce this Sharia law , but then being moderate they don't want any Sharia law and so few people do in the UK its a non issue.
I won't pretend to fully understand Islam and Sharia, mainly because I don't think anyone can, but how is this Sharia law different to the Sharia law just a few pages back I'm told that no one wants ?

Sharia Law is law derived from the Koran and the teachings of Mohammed. I think a lot of people look at the label "Sharia law" and automatically assume it's incmpatible with western laws rather than looking at the particular law in question.

To try and explain - Sharia Law says murder is illegal. Should we reject it out of hand because it's sharia law, or do we look at the aims and objectives of the law itself? Wanting a particular sharia law does NOT mean one is automatically an extremist.

To put it another way, we have thousands on UK laws, some we all agree with, some we don't. Some laws we might consider draconian which others find acceptable. its the same with Sharia law.

[robmlufc]

Countdown said:

To put it another way, we have thousands on UK laws, some we all agree with, some we don't. Some laws we might consider draconian which others find acceptable. its the same with Sharia law.

Very true, I don't agree with this one for example:

"The wife may receive a beating for every behavior that incites the anger of her husband or for every act that her husband does not like. Current Islamic literature supports the legitimacy of beating and its benefit for “upbringing.”"

[s1962a]

robmlufc said:

Countdown said:

To put it another way, we have thousands on UK laws, some we all agree with, some we don't. Some laws we might consider draconian which others find acceptable. its the same with Sharia law.

Very true, I don't agree with this one for example:

"The wife may receive a beating for every behavior that incites the anger of her husband or for every act that her husband does not like. Current Islamic literature supports the legitimacy of beating and its benefit for “upbringing.”"

That sounds like made up bullst to me.

Where did you get that from?

[anonymous-user]

Countdown said:

Sharia Law is law derived from the Koran and the teachings of Mohammed. I think a lot of people look at the label "Sharia law" and automatically assume it's incmpatible with western laws rather than looking at the particular law in question.

To try and explain - Sharia Law says murder is illegal. Should we reject it out of hand because it's sharia law, or do we look at the aims and objectives of the law itself? Wanting a particular sharia law does NOT mean one is automatically an extremist.

To put it another way, we have thousands on UK laws, some we all agree with, some we don't. Some laws we might consider draconian which others find acceptable. its the same with Sharia law.

I am personally quite happy with the majority of laws in this country so the concept of it being altered to reflect Sharia law to any level is not welcome. It is the fear of particular Islamic laws being implemented, those that are deemed alien or harsher than our own. This fear is reinforced when we see the Taliban etc executing and disfiguring people for 'crimes' we deem to be low level crimes or even lawful, supposedly in the name of Sharia Law. It would be good for Muslims to engage with with the west to explain that this is not representative of the vast majority of Muslims or Islamic society.

[robmlufc]

s1962a said:

That sounds like made up bullst to me.

Where did you get that from?

Quran verse 4:34
"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme."

Lovely.

[s1962a]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Part of the issue is there isn't any 'authority' within the muslim world that all listen to. It's very fragmented and a lot of different viewpoints are out there. This is why when people think there will be some sort of muslim invasion they are giving far too much credit.

A good example of where the majority are getting sick and tired of the likes of the taliban is in response to what happened to Malala Yousafzai in Pakistan. There is public outrage there and I hope this is a turning point to oust the taliban from those areas once and for all.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19893309

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19898774

[Countdown]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Ditto

anonymous said:

[redacted]

A false fear if you don't mind me saying, and one that the far-right feed on.

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The majority of muslims find this equally abhorrent tbh and it tends to be condemned. However the condemnation rarely attracts the same attention from the media that the original action did.

[Mr_B]

Countdown said:

Sharia Law is law derived from the Koran and the teachings of Mohammed. I think a lot of people look at the label "Sharia law" and automatically assume it's incmpatible with western laws rather than looking at the particular law in question.

To try and explain - Sharia Law says murder is illegal. Should we reject it out of hand because it's sharia law, or do we look at the aims and objectives of the law itself? Wanting a particular sharia law does NOT mean one is automatically an extremist.

To put it another way, we have thousands on UK laws, some we all agree with, some we don't. Some laws we might consider draconian which others find acceptable. its the same with Sharia law.

Indeed. Can we only have selective Sharia laws then, where you don't we have to accept all of them ? If the ultra moderate MCB wants to force its opinion on this part of Sharia law, why does it not seek to impose the rest ? Does it have the Prophet given ability to decide which apply and which not to, who decides this stuff ?
I would have thought if you were keen on one law to apply , as the MCB seem to keen, are you not going against your God to say that this bad law that many think retarded now, doesn't apply because most don't believe it now ?

[Countdown]

Mr_B said:

Indeed. Can we only have selective Sharia laws then, where you don't we have to accept all of them ?

Absolutely, but I think you miss the point. In the UK we do not accept Shariah Law (or talmudic law or biblical law). We accept a law decided through democratic process. That law may agree with sharia/talmud/bible principles but that does not make it a Sharia Law.

Mr_B said:

If the ultra moderate MCB wants to force its opinion on this part of Sharia law, why does it not seek to impose the rest ?

Not sure what you mean. The MCB can have an opinion about anything (just like you, me, or anybody else). It can't force that opinion on anybody. If the MCB said tomorrow "Right, all football clubs apart from Manchester United are banned" what exactly will happen ?

OTOH is the "Ban all non-Manchester United Football Clubs" party was elected with a parliamnetary majority it might be a different story

Mr_B said:

I would have thought if you were keen on one law to apply , as the MCB seem to keen, are you not going against your God to say that this bad law that many think retarded now, doesn't apply because most don't believe it now ?

The MCB don't speak for God (as far as I'm aware) Like most people I look at the issue and make my own decisions. Admittedly I'm not a big fan of profiteering from desperate people who have nowhere else to turn to, but it's a free country and money lending is perfectly legal. If i was a newcastle player it certainly wouldnt bother me.

[anonymous-user]

I think that most of the conflicting differences between Christianity and Islam are a direct result of the differing personality traits of Jesus and Mohammed, simple as that. Because of that, and natural competition between faiths to reign supreme, there will always be some disagreement.
The other difference I see is that Christianity has been interfered with by the state throughout history in order to reduce the power of God and to increase the power of the monarch, such as Henry VIII. That type of Christianity has been exported globally. The fear of God's will has been diluted because the monarch wanted to be the one to fear. But monarchs die and monarchs end up being answerable to us (English Civil War), something God does not do, so through time fear of God and monarch diminishes. Islamic rulers have on the other hand reinforced deference to Allah as the supreme ruler, avoiding watering down or 'corrupting' the original message to suit a rulers thirst for power.
I welcome anyone who wishes to correct me!

[grumbledoak]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Hardly. Mo's priests are as free to determine "God's Will" as Jesus' ever were. Even more so where the people cannot read the Holy Book for themselves, as was the case here in the Dark Ages with Latin.

[Mermaid]

robmlufc said:

grumbledoak said:

It's easy. People just make st up as they feel like it and try to justify it after the fact.

Make sure you get offended by anything and everything.

A religion of convenience.

[Countdown]

Guam said:

I am aware of that, however we dont know whether any of the players have raised it as an issue <nothing in the public domain does not equate with lack of an issue>.
Still makes the thing an utter nonsense!

For it to be an issue with a player (or players) and for it then to go direct to the MCB (without it becoming public) would be surprising, to say the least. The MCB don't have any role in what players should or shouldn't do, and any player who felt this was an issue would (IMO) have spoken to his local Imam rather than the MCB. I'd also have expected the MCB to state that players had raised these concerns with them, rather than it bein a general statement.