Why does everyone hate teachers?
Discussion
nadger said:
...makes me think that perhaps there is a genuine dislike for teachers in the uk now.
Not at all, teachers are generally appreciated I think, but the impression I have is that some teachers, in common with a number of other essential but public sector paid professions, get good guaranteed salaries, guaranteed index linked pensions, excellent holidays, but think that they are hard done by and are forever whining or planning strike action. I am sure that dealing with uncooperative kids every day and the general lack of parental and other discipline is no piece of cake, but other jobs can be unpleasant too, without the security teachers we perceive teachers have.The impression may be encouraged by Union and other representatives rather than the teachers themselves. This really gets up the nose of those of us in the private sector who have none of the above and are scratching our way along in poverty day by day with no prospect of a pension, or indeed any retirement at all. It is also incredibly annoying when people come on the radio arguing that, in essence, teachers should not be subject to discipline, should not be subject to performance assessment, school results should not be published, etc. I don't know what impression you think that creates, but to me it suggests a cosy left wing gravy train with no relationship to reality.
That may be a false impression, but if you think that teachers are occasionally unpopular, imho you need to blame the types who appear on the media talking on your behalf. These representatives would create a great deal more sympathy if they appeared to understand the horrific financial circumstances much of the rest of the population endure, and the fact that the public finances cannot be a bottomless pit, not for the NHS, not for the Police, not for the Army, not for anybody.
Don't even start me on doctors and bankers.
nadger said:
Now I know that these responses often come from those people with an axe to grind, but the sheer number of responses makes me think that perhaps there is a genuine dislike for teachers in the uk now. If this is the case, I'd really appreciate it if people would explain it to me!
Thanks in advance,
Lowering teaching standards.Thanks in advance,
Militant unionism.
Job for life.
Continual b
hing about work load - helpfully forgetting that everyone else has to work hard.Decent renumeration, yet still b
h to anyone that listens.And so forth.
fbrs said:
Lotusevoraboy said:
I speak as a teacher and can tell you that while on paper the holidays seem great, in reality the hours put in during term time more than outweigh this. It is an utterly exhausting and thankless job that routinely sees me leave the house at 7:40 and return, if I am lucky at 6:30pm, eat and then work again until 10 or 10:30pm and yet there is never a single day that I can go to bed and think, yep, I am on top of everything. Last week OFSTED did us the pleasure of dropping by too, cue working until 1:30am two nights running, getting to work and seeing an email sent by the head at 06:00 asking for a set of books for OFSTED to trawl through to check for quality of marking. The inspector then dropped in and despite my class exceeding the national averages for similar schools and all schools nationwide by some margin in terms of A*/A (32%) and A*-C (79%) he concluded the lesson could have been more dynamic and demonstrated more progress. The day after pupils then sit and say, after producing a half hearted piece of prose the day before, sir, " sir, you ain't marked me book yet". Last year one kid, who could not fit my subject on on his timetable, was given one on one coaching at lunch and after school by me. He got an A grade yet on results day emailed the Head complaining, saying if he knew he would not have got a A* then he would have retaken a unit. I was asked "how i respond to this" charge it seemed. Literally no thanks, ever, from anyone. A non teacher can never understand. Working a 'normal' job, whiling away the hours and clock watching until 5pm, leaving work and it literally not entering your head until the next morning and wishing the days away until the weekend so you can get pissed, even though you may not get as many
'holiday's', must be blissful. Life would be a holiday.
Also, people should ask themselves, if a teacher starts at 9 and finishes at 3, as is popularly thought it seems, then when are the lessons planned, PowerPoints created, worksheets made, card sorts cut, books and assessments marked, Schemes of work written, development plans drawn up, classrooms tidied and even repainted? In the 'holidays' of course.
'holiday's', must be blissful. Life would be a holiday.
Also, people should ask themselves, if a teacher starts at 9 and finishes at 3, as is popularly thought it seems, then when are the lessons planned, PowerPoints created, worksheets made, card sorts cut, books and assessments marked, Schemes of work written, development plans drawn up, classrooms tidied and even repainted? In the 'holidays' of course.
Lotusevoraboy said:
Today I left for work at 7:45 am, travelled 35 miles, had a meeting with the leaders of the school from 8:40 until 9:00, then extolled the benefits of charitable giving to 30 11-16 year olds...they were really interested. I then led a comparison of the impact of aerial bombing in WW1 and WW2 with 30 15-16 year olds, then taught 36 14-15 year olds about the class differences on board Titanic, then, in what should apparently have been my lunch mentored a new colleague for an hour. I then taught another 34 14-15 year olds about the formation, structure and relative strengths and weaknesses of the League of Nations. I then taught 36 11-12 year olds about the formation of the Roman Empire. I then drove 15 miles to attend a presentation of 4 teachers relating to a leadership and management project they had been doing until 6pm. I then came home and have just finished working on preparing for the A level I will teach tomorrow, a weekly task that takes at least 5/6 hours of my time every week. My wife, also a teacher and seven months pregnant has had a review/parents evening tonight and got in at 8:30pm....how we will cope when baby comes I will never know. Tomorrow I am working all day then going back to work at 10:30 pm, travelling to Dover overnight on a coach with 50 teenagers across to the battlefields of Belgium. This will last all weekend, returning at 9pm on Sunday. I will be back at work on Monday at 8:20 am for another full week having had no weekend off. Last week OFSTED were in so you can imagine the hours put in then too...two all dayers and bed at 1:30 amers. I will get no thanks...only complaints all week
and parents haranguing the office for me to ring them...urgently....and moans from about a dozen kids saying, "sir, why aint ya marked me book yet?"
and parents haranguing the office for me to ring them...urgently....and moans from about a dozen kids saying, "sir, why aint ya marked me book yet?"
Lotusevoraboy said:
Yippee...can't wait for half term so I can work from home marking books, writing development plans, reading A level texts and making PowerPoints at home instead of the inconvenience of travelling to work...yesss...bring it on!
So teaching is a very poorly rewarded job which you don't seem to enjoy very much. Why do you do it?Edited by fbrs on Wednesday 26th September 23:48
tinman0 said:
Lowering teaching standards.
The teachers don't set the exams, or mark them. They teach the kids to pass the examstinman0 said:
Militant unionism.
Debatable. IME it varies and only a minority are out-and-out militant.tinman0 said:
Continual bhing about work load - helpfully forgetting that everyone else has to work hard.
Decent renumeration, yet still bh to anyone that listens.
IMO the remuneration is probably reasonable. Personally I wouldn't do it for twice the money but there needs to be a balance between attracting and retaining the right calibre of candidate vs paying a market rate.hing about work load - helpfully forgetting that everyone else has to work hard.Decent renumeration, yet still b
h to anyone that listens.Mr Snap said:
Your depth of knowledge into educational does you proud. Could it be that DT is a practical subject and has to be organised on a different basis to, say, history or french?
Like any workshop based trade, everything is meticulously planned in advance to achieve success. Tools, for instance are allocated specific places and at the end of the day/lesson everything is checked back in to place. Workshops are meticulously tidied by the kids themselves for reasons of H&S - meaning that less teacher hours are spent tidying up classrooms, it's all part of standard workshop discipline and utterly different to the approach in any other subject.
People teaching 'resistant materials' can't take work home for marking because it's completely impractical. Not unless they have a Bedford truck and a spare room the size of a tennis court.
DT is practical, so teachers tend to give out very little homework. Telling a kid to go home to plane a bit of timber doesn't go down well with his single mum, who probably doesn't have a workshop handy...
It's also very common for teachers in 'academic' subjects to completely misunderstand the differences between DT and their own subject's - being 'academic' very few of them have any experience of it. Sounds like your wife is no different. DT is one of the few subjects left on the school curriculum that still encourages the use of imagination and inventiveness. Slagging off the people who teach DT when you clearly know nothing about what they do is plainly prejudiced, anti teacher, tripe.
My brother is head of the DT department at a big 11-16 comp. His is one of the very few subjects in which the "difficult" children might actually get engaged in. The sort of kids who will never in a million years show an ounce of interest in French are desperate to impress him with their practical work and through this he can get them interested in the maths, physics etc. behind what they're doing. He takes a lot of pleasure from his job but it is demanding if you do it properly. The holidays are a bonus mind you.Like any workshop based trade, everything is meticulously planned in advance to achieve success. Tools, for instance are allocated specific places and at the end of the day/lesson everything is checked back in to place. Workshops are meticulously tidied by the kids themselves for reasons of H&S - meaning that less teacher hours are spent tidying up classrooms, it's all part of standard workshop discipline and utterly different to the approach in any other subject.
People teaching 'resistant materials' can't take work home for marking because it's completely impractical. Not unless they have a Bedford truck and a spare room the size of a tennis court.
DT is practical, so teachers tend to give out very little homework. Telling a kid to go home to plane a bit of timber doesn't go down well with his single mum, who probably doesn't have a workshop handy...
It's also very common for teachers in 'academic' subjects to completely misunderstand the differences between DT and their own subject's - being 'academic' very few of them have any experience of it. Sounds like your wife is no different. DT is one of the few subjects left on the school curriculum that still encourages the use of imagination and inventiveness. Slagging off the people who teach DT when you clearly know nothing about what they do is plainly prejudiced, anti teacher, tripe.
Countdown said:
tinman0 said:
Lowering teaching standards.
The teachers don't set the exams, or mark them. They teach the kids to pass the examsCountdown said:
tinman0 said:
Militant unionism.
Debatable. IME it varies and only a minority are out-and-out militant.And they vote in the union baron dinosaurs and vote for strike action unlike the silent majority - so the entire profession gets labelled accordingly, there is some in-house cleaning to be done asafp.
The point made by tinman0 stands, as there was no claim for a majority presence of militant unionism, merely its presence and that's correct.
Countdown said:
tinman0 said:
Continual bhing about work load - helpfully forgetting that everyone else has to work hard.
Decent renumeration, yet still bh to anyone that listens.
IMO the remuneration is probably reasonable. Personally I wouldn't do it for twice the money but there needs to be a balance between attracting and retaining the right calibre of candidate vs paying a market rate.hing about work load - helpfully forgetting that everyone else has to work hard.Decent renumeration, yet still b
h to anyone that listens.hing...see Sean Connery thread, it must be somewhere. "How can you tell that a plane full of teachers has landed? When the engines stop, the whining carries on".Salary structure...who would object if the recipients appreciated that the entire package was very generous - the pension must be included in these considerations.
Countdown said:
...The teachers don't set the exams, or mark them...
really? i thought the exam boards paid teachers to mark them as a job on the side? i'm sure i remember some of my teachers telling me they did this. if they don't who does? no way the exam boards employ enough people to mark the whole countries papers in a few weeksFor the record, my view is that teachers are more skilled and harder working now than they have ever been.
This doesn't mean that there are no legitimate concerns about the profession and how it conducts itself in matters relating to militancy. Or, as mentioned, allows itself to be dominated by left wing activists no matter how many.
This doesn't mean that there are no legitimate concerns about the profession and how it conducts itself in matters relating to militancy. Or, as mentioned, allows itself to be dominated by left wing activists no matter how many.
turbobloke said:
For the record, my view is that teachers are more skilled and harder working now than they have ever been.
This doesn't mean that there are no legitimate concerns about the profession and how it conducts itself in matters relating to militancy. Or, as mentioned, allows itself to be dominated by left wing activists no matter how many.
In one...This doesn't mean that there are no legitimate concerns about the profession and how it conducts itself in matters relating to militancy. Or, as mentioned, allows itself to be dominated by left wing activists no matter how many.
tinman0 said:
Countdown said:
tinman0 said:
Lowering teaching standards.
The teachers don't set the exams, or mark them. They teach the kids to pass the examsLost_BMW said:
turbobloke said:
For the record, my view is that teachers are more skilled and harder working now than they have ever been.
This doesn't mean that there are no legitimate concerns about the profession and how it conducts itself in matters relating to militancy. Or, as mentioned, allows itself to be dominated by left wing activists no matter how many.
In one...This doesn't mean that there are no legitimate concerns about the profession and how it conducts itself in matters relating to militancy. Or, as mentioned, allows itself to be dominated by left wing activists no matter how many.
Answer me this. If the teachers are so great how come UK educational achievement ranks so low among civilised countries, with our own universities left aghast at the pitiful skills of school leavers? Employers are well aware that it's often better to engage someone who's second language is English than to take on a Brit.
Things are going so well that GCSEs have to be replaced....
Ozzie Osmond said:
Yes, and every soldier is a hero, every police officer is a hero, every fireman is a hero and so on.
Answer me this. If the teachers are so great how come UK educational achievement ranks so low among civilised countries, with our own universities left aghast at the pitiful skills of school leavers? Employers are well aware that it's often better to engage someone who's second language is English than to take on a Brit.
Things are going so well that GCSEs have to be replaced....
Perhaps part of the problem is that successive governments keep changing the system. Answer me this. If the teachers are so great how come UK educational achievement ranks so low among civilised countries, with our own universities left aghast at the pitiful skills of school leavers? Employers are well aware that it's often better to engage someone who's second language is English than to take on a Brit.
Things are going so well that GCSEs have to be replaced....
I know it is now massively different to when I attended school (left in 96), at which point it was going through major upheaval and the National Curriculum was introduced. Since then it seems there's been a variety of changes, with even more focus on early assessment of ability (the SATs didn't exist when I was that age for instance), homework (now starting from four and five years old), new A-level system, etc...
You blame the teachers; I'm sure there are bad and good. You could also look at the system, and our society in general. It doesn't help that, as this thread shows, many parents do not respect teachers, and may well not be instilling the same respect in their offspring.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Lost_BMW said:
turbobloke said:
For the record, my view is that teachers are more skilled and harder working now than they have ever been.
This doesn't mean that there are no legitimate concerns about the profession and how it conducts itself in matters relating to militancy. Or, as mentioned, allows itself to be dominated by left wing activists no matter how many.
In one...This doesn't mean that there are no legitimate concerns about the profession and how it conducts itself in matters relating to militancy. Or, as mentioned, allows itself to be dominated by left wing activists no matter how many.
Answer me this. If the teachers are so great how come UK educational achievement ranks so low among civilised countries, with our own universities left aghast at the pitiful skills of school leavers? Employers are well aware that it's often better to engage someone who's second language is English than to take on a Brit.
Things are going so well that GCSEs have to be replaced....
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