Why does everyone hate teachers?
Discussion
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
Blimey.
Well, my neighbour is a teacher. He is also slightly more elevated - I think he's also a year head or something.
All I know is that he leaves the house at 8am and I rarely see him return much before half 6. So that blows the 'short days' argument right out of the water for a start.
Second, when he tells me of the workload, the educational rules and compliance, the constant fights with exam boards and syllabus changes, dealing with parents - and most of all, dealing with cocky, nasty little know-it-all kids....I'd say everyone should love any teacher who is prepared to do the job!!
Exactly, I knew someone who thought that running a pub, just involved standing behind the bar, and chatting with customers over a drink. His pub didn't last very long.Well, my neighbour is a teacher. He is also slightly more elevated - I think he's also a year head or something.
All I know is that he leaves the house at 8am and I rarely see him return much before half 6. So that blows the 'short days' argument right out of the water for a start.
Second, when he tells me of the workload, the educational rules and compliance, the constant fights with exam boards and syllabus changes, dealing with parents - and most of all, dealing with cocky, nasty little know-it-all kids....I'd say everyone should love any teacher who is prepared to do the job!!
Many think that being a teacher just involves standing in front of a class for a few hours and then going home. because that is all they saw when `they' were at school.
Put most people who whinge that teaching is easy in front of a class, and they would probably blubber away, and make themselves look like complete t*ts, and wilt in a sea of embarrassment.
Try doing that day after day. Many people have difficulty keeping their own kids engaged or interested for more than an hour, try doing that with 30 kids, some of whom don't want to be there, and it becomes a little more challenging.
Like in any walk of life or occupation, those that think it is easy, are usually those who know relatively little about what is actually involved.
[quote=Munter]I don't think teaching is easy. I do think 90% of the teachers I had were s
t at it
though. And I don't expect the selection process has improved to attract different people.[/quotedto
Yes, I whole heartedly agree with your comment. But I guess like in any walk of life, or occupation you get the good (sometimes excellent) the average, and down right dangerous.
t at it though. And I don't expect the selection process has improved to attract different people.[/quotedto
Yes, I whole heartedly agree with your comment. But I guess like in any walk of life, or occupation you get the good (sometimes excellent) the average, and down right dangerous.
Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Wednesday 5th August 08:26
Everyone doesn't!!
I've recently started going out with a lovely primary school teacher, what a hard working and dedicated person she is, with a real inspiring love and passion for the job and the children she teaches.
She leaves the house by 7.30am and is not back until 6pm most days.
On normal nights once back it's marking and lesson prep for an hour or so.
Other nights it's after school activities like plays and sports with the kids, or meet the parents etc etc for which they get no extra.
Lets not forget the lunchtime clubs which require supervision, no sneaking off to the pub, or even getting an hour's peace and quiet here..
Then we have the school trips at weekends or during term when they have to supervise 20-30 kids 24/7 for a week. We all know the risk that entails if something goes wrong, they will be crucified even if blameless, but we all still want little jonny to go on the field trips.
Then we get to the holidays, taking the big summer break as an example. A week of that is already spoken for with work that needs doing at school when the kids are not there. Moving entire classrooms, sorting out the old one and getting the new one ready for the first day of term. More lesson preparation to do before all the new kids arrive. The list is endless.
Yes they get what seems like a lot of holiday, but it's twice as expensive to do anything during those times, and everyone else's children are around so everything is busy/booked etc. They can't take time off at the drop of a hat, you basically have to die to be given time off in term time!! So your holiday dates are set in stone for years to come with zero flexibility.
Sound attractive? Still moaning about them?
Of course there are good and bad in any profession, but the ones I have met have all been dedicated and hardworking. So lets cut them some slack and start appreciating that the future generation is in their hands, lets value them and encourage this dedication, so we all reap the benefits in years to come.
I've recently started going out with a lovely primary school teacher, what a hard working and dedicated person she is, with a real inspiring love and passion for the job and the children she teaches.
She leaves the house by 7.30am and is not back until 6pm most days.
On normal nights once back it's marking and lesson prep for an hour or so.
Other nights it's after school activities like plays and sports with the kids, or meet the parents etc etc for which they get no extra.
Lets not forget the lunchtime clubs which require supervision, no sneaking off to the pub, or even getting an hour's peace and quiet here..
Then we have the school trips at weekends or during term when they have to supervise 20-30 kids 24/7 for a week. We all know the risk that entails if something goes wrong, they will be crucified even if blameless, but we all still want little jonny to go on the field trips.
Then we get to the holidays, taking the big summer break as an example. A week of that is already spoken for with work that needs doing at school when the kids are not there. Moving entire classrooms, sorting out the old one and getting the new one ready for the first day of term. More lesson preparation to do before all the new kids arrive. The list is endless.
Yes they get what seems like a lot of holiday, but it's twice as expensive to do anything during those times, and everyone else's children are around so everything is busy/booked etc. They can't take time off at the drop of a hat, you basically have to die to be given time off in term time!! So your holiday dates are set in stone for years to come with zero flexibility.
Sound attractive? Still moaning about them?
Of course there are good and bad in any profession, but the ones I have met have all been dedicated and hardworking. So lets cut them some slack and start appreciating that the future generation is in their hands, lets value them and encourage this dedication, so we all reap the benefits in years to come.
Wow - an old thread. But I will play.
Saw some interesting analysis the other day down in the US - about results -v- quality of teacher. Basically, large/small class size is an irrelevance compared to the quality of teacher and a school would get measurably better results by sacking bad teachers paying more to attract better quality teachers. Basically, fewer but better teachers made a big difference to outcomes.
I will see if I can dig it out.
Saw some interesting analysis the other day down in the US - about results -v- quality of teacher. Basically, large/small class size is an irrelevance compared to the quality of teacher and a school would get measurably better results by sacking bad teachers paying more to attract better quality teachers. Basically, fewer but better teachers made a big difference to outcomes.
I will see if I can dig it out.
peterperkins said:
Of course there are good and bad in any profession, but the ones I have met have all been dedicated and hardworking. So lets cut them some slack and start appreciating that the future generation is in their hands, lets value them and encourage this dedication, so we all reap the benefits in years to come.
I do appreciate the 'future generation' is in our teacher's hands (with some responsibility falling on parents too surely) and this (if I was even remotely bothered at all) is what concerns me.Did anyone catch the BBC2 Programme last night (start of a new series) "Are our a kids tough enough?" - the one where they'd put Chinese teachers into our schools? As an outsider looking in the answer would appear to be 'no'. Note: Chinese education standards are considered higher than ours (I'm not implying the teaching techniques are better).
Esseesse said:
Do people hate teachers or do they generally dislike whiners in unions?
Not necessarily in unions but just the whiners.Was chatting with one of the younger teachers I work with just before the holidays started and she commented how 6 weeks off wasn't enough.
My response through a stifled laugh was along the lines of I've never, ever had more than 2 weeks off at any time in 30 years.
To which she replied that she had never known any different, which made sense. All her life she had been at school herself with academic holidays, then college, same holidays, then uni, same holidays and now she was expected to work harder than ever before and do a pretty pressurised job with the same holidays.
Add in the fact that teachers don't think they get paid a huge salary (compared to their peers outside education) and I can see there is a sense of "we work so hard and get paid crap" attitude some have.
tomw2000 said:
Did anyone catch the BBC2 Programme last night (start of a new series) "Are our a kids tough enough?" - the one where they'd put Chinese teachers into our schools? As an outsider looking in the answer would appear to be 'no'. Note: Chinese education standards are considered higher than ours (I'm not implying the teaching techniques are better).
This is a 2 way street though, the Chinese system is aimed squarely at getting good test results, which "any fule kno" isn't the entire picture.21TonyK said:
Not necessarily in unions but just the whiners.
Was chatting with one of the younger teachers I work with just before the holidays started and she commented how 6 weeks off wasn't enough.
My response through a stifled laugh was along the lines of I've never, ever had more than 2 weeks off at any time in 30 years.
To which she replied that she had never known any different, which made sense. All her life she had been at school herself with academic holidays, then college, same holidays, then uni, same holidays and now she was expected to work harder than ever before and do a pretty pressurised job with the same holidays.
Add in the fact that teachers don't think they get paid a huge salary (compared to their peers outside education) and I can see there is a sense of "we work so hard and get paid crap" attitude some have.
It's interesting isn't it. Both of my parents were primary school teachers and have never really experienced life let alone work life outside of the education environment. They would consider themselves to be rounded and worldly people, they are actually the opposite and can have isolated views of the world. They are pleasant enough of course but can be patronising without realising it; dealing with young people all day sometimes means they forget to adjust to the adult world.Was chatting with one of the younger teachers I work with just before the holidays started and she commented how 6 weeks off wasn't enough.
My response through a stifled laugh was along the lines of I've never, ever had more than 2 weeks off at any time in 30 years.
To which she replied that she had never known any different, which made sense. All her life she had been at school herself with academic holidays, then college, same holidays, then uni, same holidays and now she was expected to work harder than ever before and do a pretty pressurised job with the same holidays.
Add in the fact that teachers don't think they get paid a huge salary (compared to their peers outside education) and I can see there is a sense of "we work so hard and get paid crap" attitude some have.
As for the job, it is clearly a tough one and I respect the good ones.
No informed person believes that, as a general rule, the teaching profession has an easy job or works less hard than any comparable knowledge-based profession.
The "look at all that holiday/they all knock off at four/it's all sitting around the staff room drinking coffee" brigade are the same uninformed rump of the population who think that we would be better off out of the EU/should send immigrants back where they came from because they are simultaneously nicking our jobs and claiming benefits/ought to string murderers up/blame political correctness for the fact that they are called out on their racism/sexism/homophobia
The "look at all that holiday/they all knock off at four/it's all sitting around the staff room drinking coffee" brigade are the same uninformed rump of the population who think that we would be better off out of the EU/should send immigrants back where they came from because they are simultaneously nicking our jobs and claiming benefits/ought to string murderers up/blame political correctness for the fact that they are called out on their racism/sexism/homophobia
21TonyK said:
Add in the fact that teachers don't think they get paid a huge salary (compared to their peers outside education) and I can see there is a sense of "we work so hard and get paid crap" attitude some have.
But teachers don't get paid a huge salary. I was thinking of a career change and investigated teaching as an option (science & technology). The pay rate I would be starting on was about half my current salary. As much as I would enjoy the school holidays, I just couldn't afford to reduce my salary by so much.Hoofy said:
Dunno about this knocking off at 3pm business. I work in schools (not as a teacher - fk that) and I don't see teachers disappear as soon as it hits 3pm. Many of them are there doing stuff until 5pm and then they take work home to mark etc.
And I think this is part of the problem. Teachers are paid for 32.5 hours a week but all the ones I know do more than that, some a little, some a lot.k that) and I don't see teachers disappear as soon as it hits 3pm. Many of them are there doing stuff until 5pm and then they take work home to mark etc.I suspect most people would also have a moan about working and not being paid for it.
truck71 said:
It's interesting isn't it. Both of my parents were primary school teachers and have never really experienced life let alone work life outside of the education environment. They would consider themselves to be rounded and worldly people, they are actually the opposite and can have isolated views of the world. They are pleasant enough of course but can be patronising without realising it; dealing with young people all day sometimes means they forget to adjust to the adult world.
As for the job, it is clearly a tough one and I respect the good ones.
Very much so. My Dad and I both used to work for the same tier 1 automotive parts supplier, a brutal industry, low single digit percent margins, just in time delivery, fines for track stops, etc.As for the job, it is clearly a tough one and I respect the good ones.
My sister in law at the time was a primary school teacher, and claimed it was really hard and stressful. She once claimed this during the same week we were flying parts to Honda Swindon by helicopter to avoid massive a fines for stopping the track.
I don't disagree teaching is hard, but they have ever left a education environment to experience how brutally hard the real world can be.
Megaflow said:
I don't disagree teaching is hard, but they have ever left a education environment to experience how brutally hard the real world can be.
In my experience, yes, there are a few of those who have lead fairly cloistered lives. OTOH there are more than a few who have a good understanding of the real world, either through their partners, or because they were employed in other fields before retraining to become teachers.Unfair to tar them all with the same brush.
Countdown said:
Megaflow said:
I don't disagree teaching is hard, but they have ever left a education environment to experience how brutally hard the real world can be.
In my experience, yes, there are a few of those who have lead fairly cloistered lives. OTOH there are more than a few who have a good understanding of the real world, either through their partners, or because they were employed in other fields before retraining to become teachers.Unfair to tar them all with the same brush.
ClaphamGT3 said:
The "look at all that holiday/they all knock off at four/it's all sitting around the staff room drinking coffee" brigade are the same uninformed rump of the population who think that we would be better off out of the EU/should send immigrants back where they came from because they are simultaneously nicking our jobs and claiming benefits/ought to string murderers up/blame political correctness for the fact that they are called out on their racism/sexism/homophobia
Well, I'd imagine such views would get pretty short shrift on here.21TonyK said:
And I think this is part of the problem. Teachers are paid for 32.5 hours a week but all the ones I know do more than that, some a little, some a lot.
I suspect most people would also have a moan about working and not being paid for it.
It's not much different for many jobs in the private sector though. I suspect most people would also have a moan about working and not being paid for it.
Many people work beyond their contracted hours (in many office jobs - it's ingrained into the culture, and you are called a "part timer" if you get in and/or leave on time).
Many people also take work home - answering emails, writing reports or presentations etc.
Some private sector jobs also involve travel for work - and most companies (in my experience) expect you to travel out of work time i.e. in the evenings or at weekends (for which you also don't get paid).
The idea that teachers are the only ones who take work home and don't get paid extra for it is probably what grates a lot of people too.
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