Why does everyone hate teachers?
Discussion
Rovinghawk said:
turbobloke said:
That they don't differentiate sufficiently between teachers of underwater basketweaving and teachers of maths and physics?
Completely off topic, I can basketweave underwater. Unfortunately I've never seen a vacancy for either doing or teaching.jjlynn27 said:
It seems that lot of people are convinced that teaching is quite an easy job with great benefits. If so, why not apply to be one? Seems that there are quite a few job opportunities, and it's not like it's a closed shop. I personally wouldn't do the job for twice the money.
and ClaphamGT3 said:
I think you simplify the divide between teaching and 'the real world'.
How many of us, in our 'real world' jobs are on the frontline of issues such as female genital mutilation, Islamic radicalisation of children, human trafficking and knife/gun crime?
I pick these topics as I happen to know that they are on the daily agenda of the head-teacher of an inner London primary school where I am a Governor.
You have chosen a relatively extreme case, though. I would presume that both the job & the payscales of that person differ significantly from those of a 'normal' teacher.How many of us, in our 'real world' jobs are on the frontline of issues such as female genital mutilation, Islamic radicalisation of children, human trafficking and knife/gun crime?
I pick these topics as I happen to know that they are on the daily agenda of the head-teacher of an inner London primary school where I am a Governor.
turbobloke said:
Rovinghawk said:
turbobloke said:
That they don't differentiate sufficiently between teachers of underwater basketweaving and teachers of maths and physics?
Completely off topic, I can basketweave underwater. Unfortunately I've never seen a vacancy for either doing or teaching.turbobloke said:
In the state sector non-academy context they would need QTS first so satisfying the criteria and managing that time would rule a lot of people out of what is not only mostly a graduate-QTS profession but one that's moving to graduate-QTS-masters profession.
Good maths and physics grads can command decent money and terms elsewhere. That is after all why these are two teacher shortage areas.
My question still stands. For almost every job you need certain qualifications. It seems that schools are finding difficult to recruit for non-core subjects too. (First quick google link).Good maths and physics grads can command decent money and terms elsewhere. That is after all why these are two teacher shortage areas.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityedu...
I don't know anything about becoming a teacher, but the prospect of having to deal with kids, red-tape, parents, and general public, day in day out, doesn't strike me as an easy, cushy job, that some posters on here are trying to portray. In sounds, to me, more like repeating a inflammatory headline from Daily Mail or Express. I'd imagine that most people complaining have no idea of what the job entails hence the typical 'public-sector-scroungers' outrage. IMO they are doing fairly thankless job.
Edited by jjlynn27 on Wednesday 5th August 18:53
ClaphamGT3 said:
How many of us, in our 'real world' jobs are on the frontline of issues such as female genital mutilation, Islamic radicalisation of children, human trafficking and knife/gun crime?
Surely such minor matters are a price worth paying for the wonderful multicultural education the children are receiving? jjlynn27 said:
It seems that lot of people are convinced that teaching is quite an easy job with great benefits. If so, why not apply to be one? Seems that there are quite a few job opportunities, and it's not like it's a closed shop. I personally wouldn't do the job for twice the money.
Easier and better paid than being a nurse or soldier. Maybe its because we can do so much better and for some reason we are not as good as we were a generation or two ago?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews...
jjlynn27 said:
It seems that lot of people are convinced that teaching is quite an easy job with great benefits. If so, why not apply to be one? Seems that there are quite a few job opportunities, and it's not like it's a closed shop. I personally wouldn't do the job for twice the money.
Conversely - quite a few teachers b
h and complain about how hard a job teaching is, how they are hard done to and unappreciated.If it's so s
t - why not apply for a job elsewhere e.g. in the private sector - or do they in fact have it better than they make out?The argument you have presented works both ways, surely?
Moonhawk said:
jjlynn27 said:
It seems that lot of people are convinced that teaching is quite an easy job with great benefits. If so, why not apply to be one? Seems that there are quite a few job opportunities, and it's not like it's a closed shop. I personally wouldn't do the job for twice the money.
Conversely - quite a few teachers bh and complain about how hard a job teaching is, how they are hard done to and unappreciated.If it's so s
t - why not apply for a job elsewhere e.g. in the private sector - or do they in fact have it better than they make out?The argument you have presented works both ways, surely?
Or do teachers think they are not worth it so they don't get bent out of shape as much in the horrible conditions of having to do so much overtime, I believe the tube drivers even have more holidays than teachers as well.
Moonhawk said:
jjlynn27 said:
It seems that lot of people are convinced that teaching is quite an easy job with great benefits. If so, why not apply to be one? Seems that there are quite a few job opportunities, and it's not like it's a closed shop. I personally wouldn't do the job for twice the money.
Conversely - quite a few teachers bh and complain about how hard a job teaching is, how they are hard done to and unappreciated.If it's so s
t - why not apply for a job elsewhere e.g. in the private sector - or do they in fact have it better than they make out?The argument you have presented works both ways, surely?
jjlynn27 said:
turbobloke said:
In the state sector non-academy context they would need QTS first so satisfying the criteria and managing that time would rule a lot of people out of what is not only mostly a graduate-QTS profession but one that's moving to graduate-QTS-masters profession.
Good maths and physics grads can command decent money and terms elsewhere. That is after all why these are two teacher shortage areas.
My question still stands. For almost every job you need certain qualifications. It seems that schools are finding difficult to recruit for non-core subjects too. (First quick google link).Good maths and physics grads can command decent money and terms elsewhere. That is after all why these are two teacher shortage areas.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityedu...
I am don't know anything about becoming a teacher, but the prospect of having to deal with kids, red-tape, parents, and general public, day in day out, doesn't strike me as an easy, cushy job, that some posters on here are trying to portray. In sounds, to me, more like repeating a inflammatory headline from Daily Mail or Express. I'd imagine that most people complaining have no idea of what the job entails hence the typical 'public-sector-scroungers' outrage. IMO they are doing fairly thankless job.
Is it an issue of people complaining, or just people pointing out what happens?
There's no need to rely on any headlines - nor is there's any basis for assuming that people who point out what happens don't know the score, quite the opposite in fact.
My point was however mainly about the impracticality of any suggestion that people who aren't teachers who dare (!) to comment on teachers' pay and conditions might become a teacher themselves.
Firstly that doesn't follow at all. I doubt it has anything to do with envy.
Secondly they may not have a degree, so for many teaching posts they need to spend 3 years on that. Then they need to gain QTS for state sector LA schools, which is at least another year. Taking 4 years out to study may not be feasible or possible (if school qualifications are lacking, otherwise if somebody is a sole earner in a family with a mortgage) which is self-evident I would have thought.
In another thread, some people dare to suggest that tube train drivers are well paid - they get £49k from the off, well above the inner London median pay level. However not everyone would want a significant pay cut to do the job and heavens above they may not even fancy driving a tube train. That in no way removes their reasonable opportunity to comment on tube train drivers' pay and strike action intentions, any more than with teachers.
If people with maths or physics or music degrees can get better pay in jobs other than teaching then good for them. The same principle applies to anyone in teaching, if they can get a better job with better pay and conditions that they wouldn't mind doing, then great!
From what I've read, teachers don't leave the profession for reasons to do with pay, it's more often due to e.g. endemic bad behaviour from pupils (and/or parents) to which their school management offers no effective response.
As someone who perhaps 'could' teach Maths, Physics and IT - would I?
Nope - I'd rather hack my junk off with a rusty teaspoon.
I'm really not sure who would come off worse - 'class' or 'teacher' - when shenanigans start (yes - we've all been to school) - I'd put my money on 'teacher' in this case - and then I'd come to grief.
No thanks - not educating spawn of the dread.
Nope - I'd rather hack my junk off with a rusty teaspoon.
I'm really not sure who would come off worse - 'class' or 'teacher' - when shenanigans start (yes - we've all been to school) - I'd put my money on 'teacher' in this case - and then I'd come to grief.
No thanks - not educating spawn of the dread.
ATG said:
turbobloke said:
That they don't differentiate sufficiently between teachers of underwater basketweaving and teachers of maths and physics?
Yup. They're in competition for a bunch of grads who have a lot of job opportunities. They are way of the money at the moment. turbobloke said:
My point was however mainly about the impracticality of any suggestion that people who aren't teachers who dare (!) to comment on teachers' pay and conditions might become a teacher themselves.
Firstly that doesn't follow at all. I doubt it has anything to do with envy.
Secondly they may not have a degree, so for many teaching posts they need to spend 3 years on that. Then they need to gain QTS for state sector LA schools, which is at least another year. Taking 4 years out to study may not be feasible or possible (if school qualifications are lacking, otherwise if somebody is a sole earner in a family with a mortgage) which is self-evident I would have thought.
Same for a teacher who want to become let us say, lawyer. If they want to become doctors or astronauts they have to train much longer. Some jobs require qualifications. What is your point?Firstly that doesn't follow at all. I doubt it has anything to do with envy.
Secondly they may not have a degree, so for many teaching posts they need to spend 3 years on that. Then they need to gain QTS for state sector LA schools, which is at least another year. Taking 4 years out to study may not be feasible or possible (if school qualifications are lacking, otherwise if somebody is a sole earner in a family with a mortgage) which is self-evident I would have thought.
turbobloke said:
In another thread, some people dare to suggest that tube train drivers are well paid - they get £49k from the off, well above the inner London median pay level. However not everyone would want a significant pay cut to do the job and heavens above they may not even fancy driving a tube train. That in no way removes their reasonable opportunity to comment on tube train drivers' pay and strike action intentions, any more than with teachers.
Yes, I'm aware that there are number of whining threads on PH about what public sector employees earn. I can't remember a thread about any perceived public worker where the thread didn't turn into relentless bashing along the lines 'why don't you try real world'. There are incompetent and/or overpaid people both in private and public sector. You only have to have a quick look at lazy sciving tts who spend their time posting, rather than doing the work that they are paid for, even taking into account the disproportionate number of directors/owners that frequent this forum. jjlynn27 said:
Yes, I'm aware that there are number of whining threads on PH about what public sector employees earn.
No, it's not about what public sector workers earn, as I'm sure you realise.
jjlynn27 said:
I can't remember a thread about any perceived public worker where the thread didn't turn into relentless bashing along the lines 'why don't you try real world'.
I'd take your word for it but it doesn't ring true.
jjlynn27 said:
There are incompetent and/or overpaid people both in private and public sector.
Agreed, no question about that - but we're not compelled to pay for private sector incompetence through our taxes on pain of imprisonment.
Not forgetting these points purely out of interest.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/pu...
http://www.hrzone.com/talent/acquisition/public-se...
http://www.hrreview.co.uk/hr-news/strategy-news/pu...
jjlynn27 said:
You only have to have a quick look at lazy sciving tts who spend their time posting, rather than doing the work that they are paid for, even taking into account the disproportionate number of directors/owners that frequent this forum.
I'm currently working when not posting so I'll pass that sentiment on to my boss by sending myself a strongly worded email along the lines of your post.ts who spend their time posting, rather than doing the work that they are paid for, even taking into account the disproportionate number of directors/owners that frequent this forum. Presumably those on PH working in the public sector make use of their 60% greater sickie rate to post as often as they do.
You are right, nobody ever comments on doctors salaries. Same as salaries for tube drivers.
Do you feel better when your taxes are paying for botched IT Contracts, for example?
If you look back few pages of this thread, you'll see people complaining about amount of holidays. Teachers are not child minders. Some people have difficulty understanding that.
The simple point is for people who think that others have it very easy, change your career. Unfortunately, such "opinions" are usually based purely on ignorance or envy.
As for posting during work hours, I thought that I was reasonably clear that it doesn't apply to directors/owners of their own companies. This being the thread about teachers, I doubt that many of them post during working hours.
Do you feel better when your taxes are paying for botched IT Contracts, for example?
If you look back few pages of this thread, you'll see people complaining about amount of holidays. Teachers are not child minders. Some people have difficulty understanding that.
The simple point is for people who think that others have it very easy, change your career. Unfortunately, such "opinions" are usually based purely on ignorance or envy.
As for posting during work hours, I thought that I was reasonably clear that it doesn't apply to directors/owners of their own companies. This being the thread about teachers, I doubt that many of them post during working hours.
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