Why does everyone hate teachers?
Discussion
nadger said:
Caulkhead said:
Is it because they're always moaning about how hard they work yet some seem to have time to make 100 posts on a motoring forum in their first month! 
Ha ha, busted! Lunchtime postings mainly tbh!Seriously though, I'm not moaning about anything I don't think? I'm genuinely interested as to why attitudes towards teachers seem so deeply divided when in other countries (especially Scandinavia in my experience) seem to have a far more post prove attitude towards them.
Will that do?
IroningMan said:
I wonder if the Scandinavian teaching unions are quite as party-politicised as the UK's? Much as I like to speak as I find, thirty or forty years of militant Marxism from the NUT does colour my view somewhat.
And why on earth do teachers feel hard done by at having to go on holiday outside of term-time? Did I miss the part where they said I can take my children out of school for a break whenever I like?
I'm firmly in the Armstong and Miller camp I'm afraid.
The unions don't help themselves at all in that respect. If you denounce absolutely every attempt to change as an attack on your members, before too long it just seems like you're opposing for opposition's sake. I can usually tell what Christine Blower's response to a government initiative will be before I read it, and it usually involves the phrases "hard-working teachers", "assault on the profession" and "Tory-led millionaire government". She even managed to work in a compliment to the previous Labour lot in her most recent one.And why on earth do teachers feel hard done by at having to go on holiday outside of term-time? Did I miss the part where they said I can take my children out of school for a break whenever I like?
I'm firmly in the Armstong and Miller camp I'm afraid.
If teaching unions engaged properly and constructively to talk about how change could be achieved in an adult manner, great things could be done.
I think like most professions teaching has that vocal minority that are never happy and never seem to realise that they aren't the only ones with a job that has stress and requires them to work hard. The difference is that because education is an industry of national and political interest this whinges get column inches and we all hear about it and that skews public perception somewhat.
I know a fair few teachers (brother and his wife are both teachers, close friend's husband is etc) and for the most part they just knuckle down and get on with it but you definitely encounter the "woe-is-me" types for whom everything is such a trial. I'll leave it to your imagination as to which type is the more successful.
I know a fair few teachers (brother and his wife are both teachers, close friend's husband is etc) and for the most part they just knuckle down and get on with it but you definitely encounter the "woe-is-me" types for whom everything is such a trial. I'll leave it to your imagination as to which type is the more successful.
I don't hate teachers.
My daughters teacher seems very good and certainly seems to put a lot of effort in, the head teachers car is seen in the yard most weekends, she's very nice too.
I do find it a bit annoying when primary school teachers (women mainly) do that thing where they talk to you like your a child though, they all do it, I find it quite patronising.
I mulled over switching careers a few years ago and going into teaching, the pension and holidays was a factor, but I decided against it.
My daughters teacher seems very good and certainly seems to put a lot of effort in, the head teachers car is seen in the yard most weekends, she's very nice too.
I do find it a bit annoying when primary school teachers (women mainly) do that thing where they talk to you like your a child though, they all do it, I find it quite patronising.
I mulled over switching careers a few years ago and going into teaching, the pension and holidays was a factor, but I decided against it.
mattnunn said:
I do find it a bit annoying when primary school teachers (women mainly) do that thing where they talk to you like your a child though, they all do it, I find it quite patronising.
Part of the problem I think.Conversation struck up at a BBQ a few weeks back, frineds of friends were tlaking about having recently taken their kids out of the state system and were asked if they'd noticed any difference yet. Instantly, without hesitation, they said "yes; more male teachers".
nadger said:
...makes me think that perhaps there is a genuine dislike for teachers in the uk now. If this is the case, I'd really appreciate it if people would explain it to me!
Thanks in advance,
Firstly, I doubt it. Secondly, I hope it's not the case.Thanks in advance,
You're in an industry that is - sadly - at the mercy of political interference, and can be burnished to a golden hue or torn down and denigrated, sometimes both on the same day. However, as nearly all UK inhabitants will have had first hand experience of a teacher they can largely make up their own minds based on their experience (or lack of).
I was much influenced by the writing of Chris Woodhead (former chief inspector of schools) on his recollections of teacher training college in the thrall of progressive socialists, where he was told/indoctrinated that it was wrong to highlight a pupil's spelling mistakes (for example) as a negative was to be avoided at all costs (along with competition, manners, learning by rote etc etc). Opened my eyes to what had been going on as I had not been through that system.
As a parent I've also seen it from a new angle. And I'm not altogether happy. Suffice to say, I'd much prefer a system where a headteacher is allowed to run their school according to their rules (within reason) and allow them the freedom to get the job done. They can pay what they like, but are subject to market forces and balanced budgets. Likewise teachers can exploit the market to get ahead or take life easier and work 9 to 5. Where a union fits into this I would not know.
TankRizzo said:
If teaching unions engaged properly and constructively to talk about how change could be achieved in an adult manner, great things could be done.
As a teacher I utterly agree with this! I want the profession to progress, and agree that theonly way to do it is to discuss the improvement. I'm not actively in favour of unions. I am a memeber of one, but only because of the legal prtection they provide should spurious accusations be made against me. NoNeed said:
I once had a boss that used to say "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach."
This is exactly the quote I was thinking of when I was asking about the difference in attitudes towards teachers here and in, for example, scandiavia. Over there this sort of idea isn't at all prevalent. Over here this quote is rolled out all the time, however whenever I tell people what I do I almost invariable get the response 'ooh, I couldn't do that'. Now I'm in no way suggesting that this makes me special (I, for instance, couldn't work 9-5 in an office as it would drive me insane!), but it's horses for courses isn't it? I cannot think of another profession which is denegrated in that way at all. Can anyone else?Camlet said:
I help a school in South London. There are over 600 students in this school. None are from monied backgrounds; quite the opposite. Several need special tuition because they're unable to read and write English even at a basic level. The Headteacher and his staff are some of the most incredible and inspirational people I have ever met. The devotion to their students is total and their progressive approach has attracted people like myself (and others) to enter the school and provide much needed links with industry. Teaching is a hugely important vocation. Great teachers are worth their weight in gold. And we should do all we can to support them.
That's fantastic.But why can't we pay those teachers more and fire the bad ones?
Or are we all to be treated [hippy]equally[/hippy]?
nadger said:
I cannot think of another profession which is denegrated in that way at all. Can anyone else?
Have you heard the names people call the police? Nurses, dentists and vets get called "failed doctors" and I've certainly encountered a whole host of derogatory comments about my own profession (IT) - apparantly we are all geeky social lepers who still live with our parents and have never seen a woman naked.nadger said:
As a teacher I utterly agree with this! I want the profession to progress, and agree that theonly way to do it is to discuss the improvement. I'm not actively in favour of unions. I am a memeber of one, but only because of the legal prtection they provide should spurious accusations be made against me.
People don't hate you, nadger. We all know most teachers are bloody hard-working and dedicated.What they hate is the small minority of self-entitled whingers and dinosaur union leaders present in every profession but which, as far as teaching goes, are given prime airtime and spoil things for the larger majority.
Teaching runs in my family, my wife is a teacher, secondary French, my mother was Head of PE (Grammar) and Grandmother head of a Primary school.
I have no second agenda, but this remains, for me, the only profession known to man where you can 'drift' through the system doing as little as possible and still get rewarded handsomely both financially and in holiday and pension entitlement.
However, the more you put in, the less it is recognised and remains resented by a large section of your peer group.
The inset days and holiday's are totally out of touch with reality and the needs of society, IMO and in the opinion of my family and several teachers I know.
The fact that there is a large section are utter 'wasters' teaching, absolutely enrages them, as this brings their profession and public perception of teachers,down continually.
I have no second agenda, but this remains, for me, the only profession known to man where you can 'drift' through the system doing as little as possible and still get rewarded handsomely both financially and in holiday and pension entitlement.
However, the more you put in, the less it is recognised and remains resented by a large section of your peer group.
The inset days and holiday's are totally out of touch with reality and the needs of society, IMO and in the opinion of my family and several teachers I know.
The fact that there is a large section are utter 'wasters' teaching, absolutely enrages them, as this brings their profession and public perception of teachers,down continually.
Robbo66 said:
The inset days and holiday's are totally out of touch with reality and the needs of society, IMO and in the opinion of my family and several teachers I know.
Certainly don't make life easy for modern two working-parent families and neither, in later school years, when combined with short days are they producing students willing or able to put in a full working day.KaraK said:
nadger said:
I cannot think of another profession which is denegrated in that way at all. Can anyone else?
Have you heard the names people call the police? Nurses, dentists and vets get called "failed doctors" and I've certainly encountered a whole host of derogatory comments about my own profession (IT) - apparantly we are all geeky social lepers who still live with our parents and have never seen a woman naked.KaraK said:
Have you heard the names people call the police? Nurses, dentists and vets get called "failed doctors" and I've certainly encountered a whole host of derogatory comments about my own profession (IT) - apparantly we are all geeky social lepers who still live with our parents and have never seen a woman naked.
Good point, hadn't thought of that! I take it all back!Many thanks for all the responses. I really appreciate the viewpoints of those not 'in the bubble' of education.
I'm afraid it sounds like I am exactly the kind of teacher so many of you dislike though, I drifted into the profession because I wasn't sure what I wanted to do but enjoyed the interaction with young people. I tried it as part of the PGCE course, enjoyed it and remained! I have never had a 'proper' job outside of the 'bubble', so it is very difficult to gain a true perspetive on the way that teachers are viewed outside.
I agree that there are people who do 'drift' through their careers. However I can assure you that there are very stringent measures in place now to make this as difficult as possible. You need to pass your performance management targets each year to progress. I face the possibility of not progressing this year for the first time ever as my class didn't meet the performance criteria. It's particularly frustrating for me, as the students that failed to do so were as a consequence of issues outside of my control (a drugs issue, two parental bereavements and one lazy b*****d who simply would not do anything despite my and his parents best efforts). Hopefully I will be able to get these through as mitigating events, but don't hold out too much hope, however neither am I intending to sound as if I am complaining as I know what my targets are and also the consequernces of not meeting them.
I'm afraid it sounds like I am exactly the kind of teacher so many of you dislike though, I drifted into the profession because I wasn't sure what I wanted to do but enjoyed the interaction with young people. I tried it as part of the PGCE course, enjoyed it and remained! I have never had a 'proper' job outside of the 'bubble', so it is very difficult to gain a true perspetive on the way that teachers are viewed outside.
I agree that there are people who do 'drift' through their careers. However I can assure you that there are very stringent measures in place now to make this as difficult as possible. You need to pass your performance management targets each year to progress. I face the possibility of not progressing this year for the first time ever as my class didn't meet the performance criteria. It's particularly frustrating for me, as the students that failed to do so were as a consequence of issues outside of my control (a drugs issue, two parental bereavements and one lazy b*****d who simply would not do anything despite my and his parents best efforts). Hopefully I will be able to get these through as mitigating events, but don't hold out too much hope, however neither am I intending to sound as if I am complaining as I know what my targets are and also the consequernces of not meeting them.
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