Why does everyone hate teachers?
Discussion
nadger, i have great memories of school and almost all my teachers. personally i think the profession's problem is seemingly allowing such a vociferous idiotic union to speak for all, clearly they don't, but one very rarely hears any other voice. do all teachers seriously think gcse's are fit for purpose? do all teachers really think todays A compares to an o level A? do all teachers think the grade inflation is due to their exceptional teaching? do all teachers oppose everything the government tries to do? are all teachers excellent and none should be fired of incompetence? of course not. i have a couple of friends who became state school teachers after various careers including law who freely admit that the stress levels, holidays, hours and pension are great, thats why they switched! if teachers have a credibility problem with parents and the public i suggest they look at the drivel the NUT spouts in their name.
Edited by fbrs on Monday 24th September 15:26
fbrs said:
nadger, i have great memories of school and almost all my teachers. personally i think the profession's problem is seemingly allowing such a vociferous idiotic union to speak for all, clearly they don't, but one very rarely hears any other voice. do all teachers seriously think gcse's are fit for purpose? do all teachers really think todays A compares to an o level A? do all teachers think the grade inflation is due to their exceptional teaching? do all teachers oppose everything the government tries to do? are all teachers excellent and none should be fired of incompetence? of course not. i have a couple of friends who became state school teachers after various careers including law who freely admit that the stress levels, holidays, hours and pension are great, thats why they switched! if teachers have a credibility problem with parents and the public i suggest they look at the drivel the NUT spouts in their name.
OP you have your answer. Edited by fbrs on Monday 24th September 15:26
The rest of us don't mind that teachers have a bloody good wicket, good on you for it, what pisses us off is when you're on a good wicket and your union insists on moaning and bleating on about how hard you have it.
I don't hate teachers. I hate people employed to teach but who can't. And in my school that was quite a lot of them.
I also hate the rules around teaching that block teachers being effective. "The system" is too soft on teachers who can't, parents that don't support/prepare their kids properly, and pupils who refuse to try.
Sack the teachers who are no use.
Remove the kids from parents who are not parenting properly (and place them in a real care system not the current s
te)
And punish the kids who don't put the effort in. (I don't care what grades they get, but not trying deserves a punch in the face)
I also hate the rules around teaching that block teachers being effective. "The system" is too soft on teachers who can't, parents that don't support/prepare their kids properly, and pupils who refuse to try.
Sack the teachers who are no use.
Remove the kids from parents who are not parenting properly (and place them in a real care system not the current s
te)And punish the kids who don't put the effort in. (I don't care what grades they get, but not trying deserves a punch in the face)
I left school in 1978. I can still remember fondly some of the inspirational teachers who had to put up with me at school.
I am still friendly with several and see them at Old Boys functions. One of these gentlemen won an award from the RFU last year for coaching school rugby for over 40 years.
I am still friendly with several and see them at Old Boys functions. One of these gentlemen won an award from the RFU last year for coaching school rugby for over 40 years.
miniman said:
Very interesting point. Having just finished our first summer holiday, I would sign up for that like a shot.
You're 5?On topic, there are lots of great teachers and loads (probably more) of mediocre ones.
Most are just competent, but that's probably enough (to be honest, most people are just competent at what they do in any line of work, in my experience).
I guess the question really is "DOES everyone hate teachers?" - I know a few and I can't think of any that taught my kids who I hate. A few who taught me were sadists and one was a probable paedophile, but I can't really remember hating any of them on reflection.
Not 'the best days of my life' (that was a crock of s
te), but I got through it and a few teachers were a pleasure and inspirational and they stick in my mind whilst the crap ones fade away... M.
Edited by marcosgt on Monday 24th September 16:24
nadger said:
NoNeed said:
I once had a boss that used to say "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach."
This is exactly the quote I was thinking of when I was asking about the difference in attitudes towards teachers here and in, for example, scandiavia. Over there this sort of idea isn't at all prevalent. Over here this quote is rolled out all the time, however whenever I tell people what I do I almost invariable get the response 'ooh, I couldn't do that'. Now I'm in no way suggesting that this makes me special (I, for instance, couldn't work 9-5 in an office as it would drive me insane!), but it's horses for courses isn't it? I cannot think of another profession which is denegrated in that way at all. Can anyone else?It would be interesting to work out the pay for a teacher if they got overtime.
Most good teachers do at least 2 hours extra work a day whether it is at school or at home.
Also today the teacher gets the blame if a child does not gain the exam results predicted by non-subject based tests they sit. In the past if the child failed it was the fault of the child because they had not put the effort in.
I blame league tables.
Most good teachers do at least 2 hours extra work a day whether it is at school or at home.
Also today the teacher gets the blame if a child does not gain the exam results predicted by non-subject based tests they sit. In the past if the child failed it was the fault of the child because they had not put the effort in.
I blame league tables.
The only thing that makes me have any disdain for teachers is that their public voice is their unions. Unions speaking for anyone makes me respect them less, even though I know that a large proportion of any workforce don't think like their union.
Anecdote isn't evidence, but a uni friend of mine has jacked engineering in and become a maths teacher. He happily admits that it's a lot easier than his old job and that the hours and holidays are a big plus.
Anecdote isn't evidence, but a uni friend of mine has jacked engineering in and become a maths teacher. He happily admits that it's a lot easier than his old job and that the hours and holidays are a big plus.
Years ago, I worked for a civil engineering consultancy. It did not pay overtime and instead had a flexitime system. The timesheet and project accounting system did not enforce the rules of the system and nor did management, and as a result many engineers had positive flex balances of hundreds and hundreds of hours which they would never have the opportunity to take. It worked out OK, though, management were flexible with engineers taking a bit more flex in one month than the rules strictly allowed and engineers were flexible with working enough all-nighters in a row to deliver to a deadline despite their flex balance going well over what was allowed to be carried over.
Eventually they finally got a new project accounting system which could enforce the rules. The head of HR sent out a missive explaining that from now on any flex balances would be truncated at the end of the month at the amount the rules said would be carried over. In cases where an engineer stood to lose a lot of hours as a result, "a letter of thanks from management" would be appropriate.
I'm just wondering how hysterical the NUT would get about that kind of thing...
Anyway, as it happened, management and engineers just colluded to lie to the project accounting system.
Eventually they finally got a new project accounting system which could enforce the rules. The head of HR sent out a missive explaining that from now on any flex balances would be truncated at the end of the month at the amount the rules said would be carried over. In cases where an engineer stood to lose a lot of hours as a result, "a letter of thanks from management" would be appropriate.
I'm just wondering how hysterical the NUT would get about that kind of thing...
Anyway, as it happened, management and engineers just colluded to lie to the project accounting system.
otolith said:
Years ago, I worked for a civil engineering consultancy. It did not pay overtime and instead had a flexitime system. The timesheet and project accounting system did not enforce the rules of the system and nor did management, and as a result many engineers had positive flex balances of hundreds and hundreds of hours which they would never have the opportunity to take. It worked out OK, though, management were flexible with engineers taking a bit more flex in one month than the rules strictly allowed and engineers were flexible with working enough all-nighters in a row to deliver to a deadline despite their flex balance going well over what was allowed to be carried over.
Anyway, they finally got a new project accounting system which could enforce the rules. The head of HR sent out a missive explaining that from now on any flex balances would be truncated at the end of the month at the amount the rules said would be carried over. In cases where an engineer stood to lose a lot of hours as a result, "a letter of thanks from management" would be appropriate.
I'm just wondering how hysterical the NUT would get about that kind of thing...
Anyway, as it happened, management and engineers just colluded to lie to the project accounting system.
Dont know about others but this is pretty much exactly the same as us.Anyway, they finally got a new project accounting system which could enforce the rules. The head of HR sent out a missive explaining that from now on any flex balances would be truncated at the end of the month at the amount the rules said would be carried over. In cases where an engineer stood to lose a lot of hours as a result, "a letter of thanks from management" would be appropriate.
I'm just wondering how hysterical the NUT would get about that kind of thing...
Anyway, as it happened, management and engineers just colluded to lie to the project accounting system.
Happy82 said:
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
All I know is that he leaves the house at 8am and I rarely see him return much before half 6. So that blows the 'short days' argument right out of the water for a start.
My pub was usually full of teachers at 1600, he probably goes there after work 
I have noticed a real change in the media of late, mainly the tabloids, especially the Sun, where teachers are being routinely slated. With a readership of 5 million, such views soon spread through society as people routinely repeat the arguments they read.
I speak as a teacher and can tell you that while on paper the holidays seem great, in reality the hours put in during term time more than outweigh this. It is an utterly exhausting and thankless job that routinely sees me leave the house at 7:40 and return, if I am lucky at 6:30pm, eat and then work again until 10 or 10:30pm and yet there is never a single day that I can go to bed and think, yep, I am on top of everything. Last week OFSTED did us the pleasure of dropping by too, cue working until 1:30am two nights running, getting to work and seeing an email sent by the head at 06:00 asking for a set of books for OFSTED to trawl through to check for quality of marking. The inspector then dropped in and despite my class exceeding the national averages for similar schools and all schools nationwide by some margin in terms of A*/A (32%) and A*-C (79%) he concluded the lesson could have been more dynamic and demonstrated more progress. The day after pupils then sit and say, after producing a half hearted piece of prose the day before, sir, " sir, you ain't marked me book yet". Last year one kid, who could not fit my subject on on his timetable, was given one on one coaching at lunch and after school by me. He got an A grade yet on results day emailed the Head complaining, saying if he knew he would not have got a A* then he would have retaken a unit. I was asked "how i respond to this" charge it seemed. Literally no thanks, ever, from anyone. A non teacher can never understand. Working a 'normal' job, whiling away the hours and clock watching until 5pm, leaving work and it literally not entering your head until the next morning and wishing the days away until the weekend so you can get pissed, even though you may not get as many 'holiday's', must be blissful. Life would be a holiday.
Also, people should ask themselves, if a teacher starts at 9 and finishes at 3, as is popularly thought it seems, then when are the lessons planned, PowerPoints created, worksheets made, card sorts cut, books and assessments marked, Schemes of work written, development plans drawn up, classrooms tidied and even repainted? In the 'holidays' of course.
I speak as a teacher and can tell you that while on paper the holidays seem great, in reality the hours put in during term time more than outweigh this. It is an utterly exhausting and thankless job that routinely sees me leave the house at 7:40 and return, if I am lucky at 6:30pm, eat and then work again until 10 or 10:30pm and yet there is never a single day that I can go to bed and think, yep, I am on top of everything. Last week OFSTED did us the pleasure of dropping by too, cue working until 1:30am two nights running, getting to work and seeing an email sent by the head at 06:00 asking for a set of books for OFSTED to trawl through to check for quality of marking. The inspector then dropped in and despite my class exceeding the national averages for similar schools and all schools nationwide by some margin in terms of A*/A (32%) and A*-C (79%) he concluded the lesson could have been more dynamic and demonstrated more progress. The day after pupils then sit and say, after producing a half hearted piece of prose the day before, sir, " sir, you ain't marked me book yet". Last year one kid, who could not fit my subject on on his timetable, was given one on one coaching at lunch and after school by me. He got an A grade yet on results day emailed the Head complaining, saying if he knew he would not have got a A* then he would have retaken a unit. I was asked "how i respond to this" charge it seemed. Literally no thanks, ever, from anyone. A non teacher can never understand. Working a 'normal' job, whiling away the hours and clock watching until 5pm, leaving work and it literally not entering your head until the next morning and wishing the days away until the weekend so you can get pissed, even though you may not get as many 'holiday's', must be blissful. Life would be a holiday.
Also, people should ask themselves, if a teacher starts at 9 and finishes at 3, as is popularly thought it seems, then when are the lessons planned, PowerPoints created, worksheets made, card sorts cut, books and assessments marked, Schemes of work written, development plans drawn up, classrooms tidied and even repainted? In the 'holidays' of course.
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