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Oakey

16,124 posts

99 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Wiki said:
N596GA/N977GA

Another Gulfstream V, N596GA, manufacturers serial number 596, has also been mentioned in print as a possible transport for the CIA program of extraordinary rendition. Author Dave Willis wrote in Air Forces Monthly in May 2008 that this airframe, ordered in 1999 by the United States Air Force as a C-37A, serial 99-0405, was rolled out as N596GA but only briefly took up its military serial before reverting to the civil registration, issued on September 20, 2001, nine days after the 9-11 attacks. It was registered to National Aircraft Leasing of Greenville, New Castle County in Delaware, "and is believed to have been used by the Justice Prisoner and Alien Transportation Systems (JPATS), managed by the U.S. Marshals Service. JPATS is responsible for moving prisoners and non-US citizen criminals around and has its own fleet of aircraft, as well as frequently leasing others. N596GA is also said to have been used in the CIA's programme of extraordinary rendition against terrorist subjects."[21]

The author also mentions N379P, of Premiere Executive Transport Services, (later N8068V and N44982), and its alleged use in rendition missions.

As of at least June 24, 2011, this Gulfstream V, c/n 596, flies as N977GA, registered to the United States Department of Justice. On the aforementioned date, this aircraft was dispatched to California to retrieve fugitive New England crime boss "Jimmy" Bulger and his girlfriend Catherine Greig, transporting them to Boston's Logan International Airport.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendition_aircraft#N596GA.2FN977GA

MadMullah

4,823 posts

76 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
surely these guys will be eligible for similar legal aid in the US too? do they have something similar where the state will pay for their lawyers?

i'm sure due process etc and appeals will take forever too? ontop of that the cost of housing such inmates - all a burden on the us system correct?

Somewhatfoolish

3,670 posts

69 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
MadMullah said:
surely these guys will be eligible for similar legal aid in the US too? do they have something similar where the state will pay for their lawyers?

i'm sure due process etc and appeals will take forever too? ontop of that the cost of housing such inmates - all a burden on the us system correct?
From my understanding they'll need someone to take them on pro bono otherwise they'll be represented by the bottom 20% of recent graduates out of law school. American system is seriously unjust.

Having said that I read the actual appeal document today and I want to change my position on Hamaza, he really is a bd with stloads of evidence against him. Not taht that changes my mind abuot Supermax being evil for anyone, no matter how evil UNLESS it is physically impossible to control them any other way. But something else worth pointing out is Hamza ain't going to end up in Supermax due to his health, so...

But poor Babar Ahmed... whatever it is he did wrong, he didn't do it in the US. His situation is disgusting, even more so than that of the autistic weirdo whose name escapes me who "hacked" those nasa pcs to look for UFOs.

So much so that I am certain that it will be seen in fifty years time as worse than say the Dreyfus affair... this thing has dragged on for around a decade.

Somewhatfoolish

3,670 posts

69 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Puggit said:
Membership of the EU is conditional to membership of the ECHR
You can't join the EU if you don't join the ECHR.

But you can certainly be a member of the ECHR if you don't join the EU.

I do agree with you in a certain sense that ideally the UK should have its highest court, and that's it. In fact I'd love that. I'd love the UK out of the EU and fully soverign about everything. But that is at least partly predicated on the UK being fully civilised.

But if it is to do that it needs proper respect for human rights. Further than the ECHR goes, actually. The ECHR is a bugger in principle but it seems our current best hope to apply universal human rights to everyone, no matter what the consequences.

It would be even better if that were implemented in a UK court and all the other bks were stripped out. But the UK has over half of people in favour of capital punishment, ffs. Yet even more amusingly about half of those won't allow medically assisted painless suicide!

In other words the ECHR is st but until people civilise it is at least doing something. And my god I hope the UK exits the EU as soon as possibly, but it'll surely remain a member of the ECHR...

MadMullah

4,823 posts

76 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Somewhatfoolish said:
From my understanding they'll need someone to take them on pro bono otherwise they'll be represented by the bottom 20% of recent graduates out of law school. American system is seriously unjust.
wow. i mean fair enough its a case of not letting the lawyers milk it out but damn. i can see why others aside from the obvious dont want to be sent to the usa.

ok if he was to hire a top lawyer - what kinda fee's would the lawyer command?

i dont want my experience of watching law and order only to be the only source of US law

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onyx39

5,659 posts

33 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Hamza landed at 07-12, never thought I would see the day.

johnfm

10,686 posts

133 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
So what was the final bill to the tax payer for this joker?

I think they should introduce a 'hand wringers tax' of 70% applicable for all those who bleat about giving people like this their days in court.

thinfourth2

29,413 posts

87 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Tony 1234 said:
turbobloke said:
Digga said:
thinfourth2 said:
He will still be here for christmas
Struggling to pull crackers. My heart bleeds for him.
And as Guam has pointed out it's supposedly mental health issues, NSS!

grumpy
You just couldn't make it up could you!!! he'll be getting compensation for a legal technicality on HRA grounds next, you just see.
Its nice to be wrong

maxfan

1,622 posts

26 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
thinfourth2 said:
Its nice to be wrong
You should have realised with that hook he was never going to be pulling crackers

Laurel Green

17,537 posts

115 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
At last the hook has been slung!

essexplumber

7,405 posts

56 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
So, have any bleeding heart lefties come out in support of him yet?

Breadvan72

17,628 posts

46 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
REALIST123 said:
Breadvan72 said:
Joking apart, the death penalty is not an option.

By the way, critics of UK-US extradition policy may be interested to learn that the US has not refused a single UK extradition request, but the UK has refused seven US requests, since the latest treaty was made.
So what? There have still been almost twice as many sent to the USA than to the UK in that time.
The US is much more than twice as big as the UK. Had you not noticed that?

Lost_BMW

12,955 posts

59 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Somewhatfoolish said:
Having said that I read the actual appeal document today and I want to change my position on Hamaza, he really is a bd with stloads of evidence against him.
So, imagine how much more his solicitor knows, the one who has fought for him every step of the way, defending anything he did or said, even against the majority of local muslims when they wanted his 'takeover' of the Finsbury Park Mosque stopped.

Despite knowing, in all probability, just how nasty, rabid and dangerous a rabble rouser he is. More than money involved here, not withstanding the millions of pounds these actions have cost the UK taxpayer. Setting aside for a moment the stuff about civil societies and everyone having access to representation and fair trails I suspect this person has gone beyond the desire to protect these basic rights for 'other' reasons. Idealogical bd. Anti police too by the looks of stuff bragged about on the website:

http://www.aranisolicitors.com/about.html

"We also represented Sheikh Abu Hamza in the Finsbury Park mosque and when he was arrested under the Terrorism Act, we are still representing Sheikh Abu Hamza in respect of the novel provisions under the Immigration and Nationality Asylum Act 2002 whereby he is the first person to be deprived of his British Nationality. We are also representing Sheikh Abu Hamza in respect of his Extradition case which is the first case of its kind under the new Extradition Act 2003.."


Breadvan72

17,628 posts

46 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
There was a slight delay at Mildenhall whilst the USAF fitted hook arrester gear.


getmecoat

Lost_BMW

12,955 posts

59 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Breadvan72 said:
There was a slight delay at Mildenhall whilst the USAF fitted hook arrester gear.


getmecoat
Very good! biggrin

Breadvan72

17,628 posts

46 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Somewhatfoolish said:
Puggit said:
Membership of the EU is conditional to membership of the ECHR
You can't join the EU if you don't join the ECHR.

But you can certainly be a member of the ECHR if you don't join the EU.

I do agree with you in a certain sense that ideally the UK should have its highest court, and that's it. In fact I'd love that. I'd love the UK out of the EU and fully soverign about everything. But that is at least partly predicated on the UK being fully civilised.

But if it is to do that it needs proper respect for human rights. Further than the ECHR goes, actually. The ECHR is a bugger in principle but it seems our current best hope to apply universal human rights to everyone, no matter what the consequences.

It would be even better if that were implemented in a UK court and all the other bks were stripped out. But the UK has over half of people in favour of capital punishment, ffs. Yet even more amusingly about half of those won't allow medically assisted painless suicide!

In other words the ECHR is st but until people civilise it is at least doing something. And my god I hope the UK exits the EU as soon as possibly, but it'll surely remain a member of the ECHR...
The EU is now subscribing to the ECHR, but the two institutions have been completely separate until recently. The ECHR is an instrument of the Council of Europe, which has many more members than the EU.

The ECHR was largely drafted by David Maxwell Fyfe, later Viscount Kilmuir, a British Conservative lawyer who cross examined Goering at Nuremberg, served as Home Secretary and Lord Chancellor in postwar Tory Governments, and signed the death warrants of Derek Bentley and others. The ECHR reflects 1000 years of English/Scottish Common law, and is not an alien code.

The Strasbourg Court is political and weak in quality nowadays. I would favour having our Supreme Court deciding with finality on all ECHR cases. I would favour an entrenched UK Bill of Rights.




Edited by Breadvan72 on Saturday 6th October 09:47

audidoody

6,183 posts

139 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
onyx39 said:
Hamza landed at 07-12, never thought I would see the day.
"How are you today Sir? What is the purpose of your visit?"

Ozzie Osmond

15,989 posts

129 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
audidoody said:
"How are you today Sir? What is the purpose of your visit?"
"Place your right thumb on the screen. And now the left."

RedTrident

4,740 posts

118 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
essexplumber said:
So, have any bleeding heart lefties come out in support of him yet?
There has been an injustice done in the case of Babar Ahmed.

The government may want to wrap all of these cases as the same but they clearly are not.

What has taken place with Babar Ahmed is absolutely shameful and in time his case will be studied by law students as an example of how our State behaved deplorably in the carrying out of justice.

Mr_B

5,978 posts

126 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
RedTrident said:
There has been an injustice done in the case of Babar Ahmed.

The government may want to wrap all of these cases as the same but they clearly are not.

What has taken place with Babar Ahmed is absolutely shameful and in time his case will be studied by law students as an example of how our State behaved deplorably in the carrying out of justice.
Can you explain why ?
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