Abu Hamza extradition halted .. again

[anonymous-user]

SplatSpeed said:

Breadvan72 said:

Trial first, sentence after. Quaint, maybe, but that's the way.

I guess you are paid by the hour!

Yes, just like a plumber, but there's no call out charge, and I make my own tea.

[zcacogp]

Breadvan72 said:

An Embassy does not form part of the territory of its home State. By convention, the forces of the host State do not enter the Embassy without permission. Also by convention, diplomats are immune from prosecution for crimes committed in the host State.

Ah. So it's more of a 'Gentlemans Agreement' than something that is legally binding? And presumably in cases like Assange, it is deemed to be more important to keep the agreement rather than to rush in and arrest the fellow?

Amazing what you learn. Thanks for the explanation.


Oli.

[anonymous-user]

It is an international Convention. Flouting such conventions can put a knock on a State's credibility in the international community, and, in an extreme case, can lead to war.

[Matt80M]

So old hooks hands' heath is deteriorating due to his overly harsh detention conditions....
Not finding it too comfy in the nick then? Hopefully, he has been adopted as someones bh.

Poor little lamb.

Torture is too good for this hate-filled douche-bag.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19796019

[arfur sleep]

Matt80M said:

So old hooks hands' heath is deteriorating due to his overly harsh detention conditions....
Not finding it too comfy in the nick then? Hopefully, he has been adopted as someones bh.

Poor little lamb.

Torture is too good for this hate-filled douche-bag.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19796019

Surely to back up this (IMHO bullst) claim, his solicitors have got to present a medical history showing a deteriorating state of mind over months/years? They can't just turn up at court today and say "he's gone of his rocker m'lud so you can't send him to the US" and expect to be believed when they've not mentioned it previously. (of course i may have missed the report that says his solicitors have been mentioning his mental health state in every hearing and document - not that i believe it to be true, just planting a seed in case the appeals went tits up).

[speedchick]

So apparently he needs to have an MRI scan, do they not have those in the US? Surely with the money he has stashed away he can pay for one when he gets there?

[69 coupe]

Err I hope Judge John Thomas dispatches him with his sword...

[anonymous-user]

I am no fan of Islamofascists, but I do sometimes wonder if we get too worked up about these characters. Hamza may or may not be guilty of plotting terrorism, but he and others are mostly hated for what they say rather than what they do. I sometimes think that we should all calm down a bit. The nutters have had three big successes in the developed world: 9/11, Madrid, and 7/7. Otherwise they have failed. In UK terms, they are way behind the Republican and Loyalist terror groups in terms of effectiveness.

[Murph7355]

Breadvan72 said:

I am no fan of Islamofascists, but I do sometimes wonder if we get too worked up about these characters. Hamza may or may not be guilty of plotting terrorism, but he and others are mostly hated for what they say rather than what they do. I sometimes think that we should all calm down a bit. The nutters have had three big successes in the developed world: 9/11, Madrid, and 7/7. Otherwise they have failed. In UK terms, they are way behind the Republican and Loyalist terror groups in terms of effectiveness.

Sometimes is it not more important to enforce a principle rather than worry about absolute scale?

This knob jockey has been spouting hate about his adopted country for a long time. He's broken our laws. Is wanted in the US. We never asked him to wend his way here AIUI.

Irrespective of his religion, he should be persona non gratia in this country. And I suspect it's one of those things that will do a lot of good for the mindset of the majority in this country if he is turfed out ASAP. You never know, it might calm down some of those with a desire to incite too...calm and tolerance should cut both ways (there should actually be more of it from individuals), and it seems a one way street at times.

[RedTrident]

The one I have genuine concerns about is Babar Ahmad. His story of how he was battered by the police (who later paid him compensation), the bugging of his conversations with his MP, the locking up without trial for 8 years and finally the attempted extradition to the States off the back of the web hosting company being based there. It just doesn't seem anywhere near the standards that we accept of our society.

Really think with him we should be putting him on trial here and locking him up if found guilty.

[Zod]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Funny how they can always find a cleric to sign off on any structure, even if it has already been rejected by a different cleric.

[anonymous-user]

I have not followed his case, but, put like that, it is somewhat concerning. Some may recall the fate of the Algerian pilot who was falsely accused of being a terrorist and locked up for a while.

Hamza I have no sympathy for: he should go and stand trial. He can make a submission of unfitness to plead before a US trial court.

As for preaching hate, I am inclined to say that we should rise above outrage at this, and uphold free (and sometimes offensive) speech. We should not be imprisoning people for owning dodgy magazines, but we have done so. Inciting or planning criminal offences is another matter.

[SplatSpeed]

Breadvan72 said:

I am no fan of Islamofascists, but I do sometimes wonder if we get too worked up about these characters. Hamza may or may not be guilty of plotting terrorism, but he and others are mostly hated for what they say rather than what they do. I sometimes think that we should all calm down a bit. The nutters have had three big successes in the developed world: 9/11, Madrid, and 7/7. Otherwise they have failed. In UK terms, they are way behind the Republican and Loyalist terror groups in terms of effectiveness.

body count?

african embassy bombings?

[anonymous-user]

SplatSpeed said:

Breadvan72 said:

I am no fan of Islamofascists, but I do sometimes wonder if we get too worked up about these characters. Hamza may or may not be guilty of plotting terrorism, but he and others are mostly hated for what they say rather than what they do. I sometimes think that we should all calm down a bit. The nutters have had three big successes in the developed world: 9/11, Madrid, and 7/7. Otherwise they have failed. In UK terms, they are way behind the Republican and Loyalist terror groups in terms of effectiveness.

body count?

african embassy bombings?

I'm not worked up, but I still think Hamza would look better in a body bag.

[kowalski655]

Breadvan72 said:

Trial first, sentence after. Quaint, maybe, but that's the way.

Give him a fair trial...and then hang him

[anonymous-user]

SplatSpeed said:

Breadvan72 said:

I am no fan of Islamofascists, but I do sometimes wonder if we get too worked up about these characters. Hamza may or may not be guilty of plotting terrorism, but he and others are mostly hated for what they say rather than what they do. I sometimes think that we should all calm down a bit. The nutters have had three big successes in the developed world: 9/11, Madrid, and 7/7. Otherwise they have failed. In UK terms, they are way behind the Republican and Loyalist terror groups in terms of effectiveness.

body count?

african embassy bombings?

Note that (1) I said developed world, and (2) was comparing UK results with the Irish terror groups, who are still ahead of the Islamists.

It is easier for terrorists to strike in less developed nations.

[tinman0]

RedTrident said:

The one I have genuine concerns about is Babar Ahmad. His story of how he was battered by the police (who later paid him compensation), the bugging of his conversations with his MP, the locking up without trial for 8 years and finally the attempted extradition to the States off the back of the web hosting company being based there. It just doesn't seem anywhere near the standards that we accept of our society.

Really think with him we should be putting him on trial here and locking him up if found guilty.

Or, we could save a ton of cash, ship him off to the US where he can have a trial there, you know...the trial he seems to want to avoid...

[anonymous-user]

The connection of the case with the US does appear rather tenuous. Our CPS chose not to prosecute. He may be one of the casualties of the one sided US-UK extradition treaty.

[tinman0]

Breadvan72 said:

The connection of the case with the US does appear rather tenuous. Our CPS chose not to prosecute. He may be one of the casualties of the one sided US-UK extradition treaty.

Then the case in the US will fail. Simple as that. But lets have him have his day in court.

[anonymous-user]

Ordinarily, I would agree, but when the US asserts exorbitant jurisdiction, I am less sanguine.