Police in search for missing 5 year old

[Lost_BMW]

Oakey said:

R60EST said:

I'm not on any crusade here , I'm just saying unless you do have children it's hard to understand how much it changes your perspective on things. It's not a conscious or considered thought process, more one that you are genetically programmed for.

Bridger has kids so using your logic he couldn't possibly have done it simply because 'has kids'.

Ah, so it must have been a traffic accident then, 'cos no one ever abducts or kills other people's children. Especially parents. Someone said so up there...

[Getragdogleg]

I suspect most of you are intelligent, I also suspect most of you who are having trouble with the Accident theory are forgetting just how fking stupid some members of the public are.

I have not been slavishly following this case apart from this thread so I was unaware of some of the details and some of the things witnesses saw.

Remember though those witnesses are also members of the public and my point about remembering how stupid they can be stands when dealing with what they saw.

I am not hanging the guy out to dry quite yet, I am sure he is involved and I am sure we will learn how involved in the fullness of time but I think he might also be uttery stupid and has done a stupid thing and tried to cover it up.

In a way I hope I am right, the idea of him taking the 5 year old playmate of his own kids from the street in his home town and killing her is a bit too nasty for me to understand, even accounting for stupidity.

[Efbe]

R60EST said:

OK , my last post on the subject . To sum up

I think the balance of probabilities will show this person is guilty as charged . If ,and I mean if , he his I hope he gets what ever punishment he is due.

I think that giving him the benefit of the doubt and saying he is probably innocent does not help the anguish that those immediately involved in this case are going through , so much so , it's rather insensitive , a point which may not be fully appreciated by some one who has not experienced parenthood.

That is all , it's just my opinion , it's not a statement of fact or a desire to provoke a reaction.

but...

what if all he is guilt of is having a LHD discovery, which the police were already searching for due to the previous attempted abduction?
what if the person that saw him putting a black bag in the river was making it up to help strengthen the police case, I mean it is very odd an ex soldier who is trained to think in stressful situations would dump the body somewhere like this?
what is a white van was seen in the abduction, and that as been ignored because the police were too focussed on a previous case.

the thing is we don't have a clue, and we can't. we don't have a fraction of the facts, so supposing and drawing conclusions as fact is quite daft, even dangerous

[Rollcage]

For those leaning towards the accident theory, he's been charged with murder, which allows for intent to cause harm.

Drink drivers don't get charged with murder - there will be much more to it than an accident, and until the trial(which isn't likely to be until next year at the earliest), we'll just have to wait and see.

[ali_kat]

Getragdogleg said:

Remember though those witnesses are also members of the public and my point about remembering how stupid they can be stands when dealing with what they saw.

I am not hanging the guy out to dry quite yet, I am sure he is involved and I am sure we will learn how involved in the fullness of time but I think he might also be uttery stupid and has done a stupid thing and tried to cover it up.

In a way I hope I am right, the idea of him taking the 5 year old playmate of his own kids from the street in his home town and killing her is a bit too nasty for me to understand, even accounting for stupidity.

& kids

That's kinda summing up my thoughts & feelings, especially the bit I've put in bold

[ali_kat]

Efbe said:

I mean it is very odd an ex soldier who is trained to think in stressful situations would dump the body somewhere like this?

He's not. The Military have confirmed they have no record of him

[Jasandjules]

We probably will never know what happened. I feel really sorry for the parents though, this must just be a living hell for them.

[ali_kat]

Efbe said:

what if all he is guilt of is having a LHD discovery, which the police were already searching for due to the previous attempted abduction?

what is a white van was seen in the abduction, and that as been ignored because the police were too focussed on a previous case.

I think they have slightly more than that, however... originally it was a light coloured van; quite how kids got that so wrong as to be a blue Landrover I'm not sure.

Efbe said:

the thing is we don't have a clue, and we can't. we don't have a fraction of the facts, so supposing and drawing conclusions as fact is quite daft, even dangerous

[Efbe]

ali_kat said:

He's not. The Military have confirmed they have no record of him

surprising. where idd that come from then, him or others?

ali_kat said:

Efbe said:

what if all he is guilt of is having a LHD discovery, which the police were already searching for due to the previous attempted abduction?

what is a white van was seen in the abduction, and that as been ignored because the police were too focussed on a previous case.

I think they have slightly more than that, however... originally it was a light coloured van; quite how kids got that so wrong as to be a blue Landrover I'm not sure.

Efbe said:

the thing is we don't have a clue, and we can't. we don't have a fraction of the facts, so supposing and drawing conclusions as fact is quite daft, even dangerous

Let's just hope the police do have more than that anyhow. I would like to see him either being proven guilty or innocent, not being let off for not enough evidence, that would be too worrying.

[Superhoop]

I don't see how you can have a murder without finding a body? I'm also struggling with him having a dark blue LR Discovery, when the witnesses saw a 'light coloured van' , and the PCOJ charge seems odd too

They obviously have enough for the CPS to allow him to be charged, and I guess we won't find out until his trial

[Grenoble]

Superhoop said:

I don't see how you can have a murder without finding a body?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_George_Haigh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_delicti

Have a scan through these...

[rover 623gsi]

murder convictions without a body are obviusly more difficult but not as rare as people may think

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-husban...

Prout, 49, of Redmarley, Gloucestershire, was convicted of his wife's murder in February last year despite her body never having been found.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1616170.stm
A bar worker who murdered a woman with whom he had a three-in-a-bed sex romp has been jailed for life.
Gavin Taylor, 29, killed Herjit Kaur Thethy after she fell in love with his girlfriend Natalie Clayton-Robson, 20, following the drunken romp.

For ten months he stalked and harassed the two women who had moved in together.

A jury at Birmingham Crown Court unanimously convicted Taylor, formerly of Beale Close, Birmingham.

Miss Thethy's body, which the court heard was dumped in a skip, has never been found.

Sentencing him on Tuesday, Mr Justice Keith said: "No one will ever know for sure how Herjit Thethy died or what you did to her but by their verdict, the jury have made it clear that she died at your hands in circumstances amounting to murder.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/disappe...

The disappearance of Suzanne Pilley prompted one of Scotland’s most complex murder hunts in recent years. Yet though her body has never been found suspicion soon fell on her former lover David Gilroy. ..... As he was led away to begin a minimum 18-year-sentence there were shouts of “tell us where she is” and “you rot” from the public gallery.


http://www.thurrockgazette.co.uk/news/9088975.Dani...mum_speaks10_years_on/

THE mother of a schoolgirl murdered by her uncle ten years ago doesn’t believe the killer will ever reveal where her daughter’s body is.

Fifteen-year-old Danielle Jones vanished without a trace on the morning on Monday, June 18, 2001.

Her mother, Linda Jones, believes Stuart Campbell, currently serving a life sentence for the crime, enjoys the power he still has over them.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2181700/Se...

A sex attacker convicted of raping and murdering a mother-of-two whose body has never been found has been jailed for life.

Martin Stafford, 44, abducted female security guard Michelle Gunshon from a pub in December 2004, before carrying out the brutal sex attack and killing.

The body of the 38-year-old has never been found since she went missing and Stafford has refused to give a location.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17583485

The wife and daughter of a man who vanished more than 10 years ago have been found guilty of his murder.

Edited by rover 623gsi on Saturday 6th October 21:29

[Ozzie Osmond]

Suzy Lamplugh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Suzy...

[Rollcage]

Relatively recent though IIRC, convicting without a body?

[Oakey]

Mitchell Quy

[Grenoble]

Rollcage said:

Relatively recent though IIRC, convicting without a body?

Around 1949 for a famous case, as quoted a few posts back: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_George_Haigh

[EvoraEvora]

ali_kat said:

Efbe said:

what if all he is guilt of is having a LHD discovery, which the police were already searching for due to the previous attempted abduction?

what is a white van was seen in the abduction, and that as been ignored because the police were too focussed on a previous case.

I think they have slightly more than that, however... originally it was a light coloured van; quite how kids got that so wrong as to be a blue Landrover I'm not sure.

Efbe said:

the thing is we don't have a clue, and we can't. we don't have a fraction of the facts, so supposing and drawing conclusions as fact is quite daft, even dangerous

Sorry!!! but you are really coming across as some sort of apologist for this scumbag - the CPS obviously have overwhelming evidence against him otherwise there would be no charge.

[Oakey]

EvoraEvora said:

Sorry!!! but you are really coming across as some sort of apologist for this scumbag - the CPS obviously have overwhelming evidence against him otherwise there would be no charge.

Like Rebecca Leighton? You remember her, right?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2017819/...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-14...

[EvoraEvora]

Yep Stockport nurse - next!

[Oakey]

'Next' what? 'Next' person to condemn in your kangaroo court?