Police in search for missing 5 year old

Police in search for missing 5 year old

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Discussion

z4chris99

11,221 posts

178 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
he's done nothing wrong in my eyes. sad state of affairs when you get arrested for your own opinion

XCP

16,876 posts

227 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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Serendipity72 said:
R60EST said:
No completely innocent person could end up 'in the frame ' like he has . It's fair to assume he's guilty.
The British police stitch people up all the time.
Remember the Birmingham 6. Or how about Hillsborough?
And in Wales we have the horrendous Lynette White stitch up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lynette_Whi...
2 cases in 37 years hardly amounts to 'all the time'.

Twincam16

27,646 posts

257 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Guam said:
Said this before so going to say it again, there is not and never has been constitutionally protected freedom of speech in this country EXCEPT at speakers corner.
There has only been accepted lattitude to say some stuff and not other stuff depending on the period of history.

Its time that was changed and codified imho!
Also, re. people talking about there 'always being sick jokes' etc - well yes, that's true, but the people who told them generally told them to people they knew would find them funny. On Twitter you're telling them to the entire world regardless. Any newspaper with a similar reach and circulation wouldn't dare print that sort of thing or put it on their website so I can't see it being in Twitter's interest to allow that sort of thing.

And again, that's not 'curtailing free speech', it's encouraging discretion. No-one's stopping people saying things, but perhaps they shouldn't be saying them quite so publically.

Same goes for the press in the aftermath of Leveson. The Press Compaints Commission's differentiation between 'public interest' and 'the interest of the public' needs codifying asap. It'd have the side-effect of strengthening good journalism too - corrupt companies trying to threaten newspapers with injunctions wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court, while the gutter-press types who go to any length to get a photo of someone for the sake of it would find themselves out of a job.

London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
XCP said:
Serendipity72 said:
R60EST said:
No completely innocent person could end up 'in the frame ' like he has . It's fair to assume he's guilty.
The British police stitch people up all the time.
Remember the Birmingham 6. Or how about Hillsborough?
And in Wales we have the horrendous Lynette White stitch up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lynette_Whi...
2 cases in 37 years hardly amounts to 'all the time'.
I think you'd run out of space if you started listing them all out.

Chrisw666

22,655 posts

198 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
BBC reporting Bridger crying in court as the charges were read out, so perhaps not your average sociopath.

Eric Mc

121,784 posts

264 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
London424 said:
XCP said:
Serendipity72 said:
R60EST said:
No completely innocent person could end up 'in the frame ' like he has . It's fair to assume he's guilty.
The British police stitch people up all the time.
Remember the Birmingham 6. Or how about Hillsborough?
And in Wales we have the horrendous Lynette White stitch up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lynette_Whi...
2 cases in 37 years hardly amounts to 'all the time'.
I think you'd run out of space if you started listing them all out.
Absolutely - there have been hundreds.

Oakey

27,523 posts

215 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
XCP said:
2 cases in 37 years hardly amounts to 'all the time'.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Untouchables-justice-racism-Scotland-Bloomsbury/dp/144820903X/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1349689138&sr=8-11

Amazon said:
Republished after seven years, it was the first book to question the cosy relationship between the Yard and sections of the media, to explain why cops are incapable of investigating themselves and to expose the lack of independence in the new police watchdog.

From the 1983 Brinks Matt robbery, through the murders of Daniel Morgan, David Norris, Stephen Lawrence, Jill Dando and Damilola Taylor to the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes, Untouchables reveals the cover ups, double standards and miscarriages of justice during the Yard's phoney war on corruption.

Sunday Times journalist Michael Gillard and TV producer Laurie Flynn expose how the discredited use of supergrasses in the war on corruption has re-emerged in the new wars on terror and crime, with the same disastrous effects: prosecution misconduct, collapsed trials, huge bills for the taxpayer, victims left without justice and the guilty walking free.

Twincam16

27,646 posts

257 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Chrisw666 said:
BBC reporting Bridger crying in court as the charges were read out, so perhaps not your average sociopath.
I'm still not 100% sure he meant to kill her. The truth will out, no doubt, and I think his motivations may well have been despicable, but I'm still not convinced he actually meant to take her life. I'm not for one minute condoning what he did, but I don't think we should be calling for him to be hanged and flogged until we know the whole story.

Amateurish

7,697 posts

221 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Guam said:
Said this before so going to say it again, there is not and never has been constitutionally protected freedom of speech in this country EXCEPT at speakers corner.
There has only been accepted lattitude to say some stuff and not other stuff depending on the period of history.

Its time that was changed and codified imho!
It depends what you mean by freedom of speech. There is not, and never will be, an absolute right to say whatever you want to anyone. There are always some limits placed on free speech.

In this country the presumption is that you can say anything, unless what you say is unlawful in some way. Which is, in effect, freedom of speech.

Speaker's Corner does not have special status in this respect.

AB

16,969 posts

194 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Twincam16 said:
I'm still not 100% sure he meant to kill her.
Wouldn't be murder then, would it?


Twincam16

27,646 posts

257 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
AB said:
Twincam16 said:
I'm still not 100% sure he meant to kill her.
Wouldn't be murder then, would it?
A lot of murder charges get reduced to manslaughter if there are mitigating circumstances. As I said, I think we should wait until justice has run its course before deciding what he has or hasn't done.

rich1231

17,331 posts

259 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Twincam16 said:
I'm still not 100% sure he meant to kill her. The truth will out, no doubt, and I think his motivations may well have been despicable, but I'm still not convinced he actually meant to take her life. I'm not for one minute condoning what he did, but I don't think we should be calling for him to be hanged and flogged until we know the whole story.
Why post this nonsense speculation? This and so many other posts on this topic just go beyond what any rational person should think or post. You have an idea and you feel compelled to make a statement as if its somehow factual... "I'm still not sure he meant to kill her" and other remarks phrased as if they are absolutes.

Eric Mc

121,784 posts

264 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Is the term "not sure" an absolute?

I would say it is the opposite.

rover 623gsi

5,230 posts

160 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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I’m not sure that Twincam’s statement is any more or less nonsense that around 90% of all the posts not just on this thread but on the whole forum.

don'tbesilly

13,900 posts

162 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
rover 623gsi said:
I’m not sure that Twincam’s statement is any more or less nonsense that around 90% of all the posts not just on this thread but on the whole forum.
I'd agree,and if we all kept our opinions and thoughts to ourselves,there would be no PH,or any other forums,the webz would, in fact be a very dull world indeed.

Twincam16

27,646 posts

257 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
don'tbesilly said:
rover 623gsi said:
I’m not sure that Twincam’s statement is any more or less nonsense that around 90% of all the posts not just on this thread but on the whole forum.
I'd agree,and if we all kept our opinions and thoughts to ourselves,there would be no PH,or any other forums,the webz would, in fact be a very dull world indeed.
Also, you're forgetting Rich1231's habit of treating me like some kind of special case for reasons I've never quite been able to fathom.

He'll probably quote this post now, with something witty, erudite and cultured like 'fk off and die you fking tt.' He's nice like that.

Frik

Original Poster:

13,542 posts

242 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Is the term "not sure" an absolute?

I would say it is the opposite.
I'm not sure he meant to kill her implies he killed her.

blindswelledrat

25,257 posts

231 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Twincam16 said:
Also, you're forgetting Rich1231's habit of treating me like some kind of special case for reasons I've never quite been able to fathom.

He'll probably quote this post now, with something witty, erudite and cultured like 'fk off and die you fking tt.' He's nice like that.
BUt in this case, he has a reasonable point. Your post has him convicted and is exploring his mindset whilst doing it and speculating as to his muderous intentions. Based on a sum total of no facts or evidence.
You've got to admit that it's a bit too PH for comfort.

Eric Mc

121,784 posts

264 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Frik said:
Eric Mc said:
Is the term "not sure" an absolute?

I would say it is the opposite.
I'm not sure he meant to kill her implies he killed her.
"Murder" is all about "intent".

Just because somebody ends up dead after an incident is not an automatic assumption of murder.

Chrisw666

22,655 posts

198 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
"Murder" is all about "intent".

Just because somebody ends up dead after an incident is not an automatic assumption of murder.
But it does imply he is guilty lf causing her death.