Bring Back Death Penalty

[TheHeretic]

AJS- said:

Can you actually imagine that though? Can you imagine where you were 25 years ago, and if you had missed everything in between because you were locked in a prison for a crime you didn't commit? And being released in your mid 40s with no career and no qualifications, no friends, family who might not want to know you?

True enough that it isn't as final as death, and hopefully in many cases it would be corrected much earlier than that. But the argument that we can't have the death penalty because it will result in killing the wrong people betrays a real lack of faith in our justice system, warranted or not, and puts us in the uncomfortable position of accepting that people may be wrongly convicted, imprisoned and have their life ruined, but it's somehow OK because at least we didn't kill them.

Could you tell us what you would like otherwise? We know for a fact that the justice system is flawed. There are plenty of exonerations, and false convictions to tell us that. Therefore, our feelings about being uncomfortable with the justice system are justified, and real. So, the only question you have to ask yourself is what do we do in regards to a death penalty knowing that? Keep it? That makes me far more uncomfortable than kidding myself into thinking that such and such a person should die, as the Justice system tells me they should.

Do you really think that the death penalty is the best solution for a flawed justice system?

[thinfourth2]

AJS- said:

While that is a somewhat convincing argument I don't like it because it implies that we're quite happy to lock the wrong person up for 25+ years of their life, with a good chance of them dying in prison, which amounts to just about the same thing.

How about if we treated other things in the same way

Well young Timothy we see you have applied for your provisional driving license. But we note you are 18 and male so quite likely to crash the car and kill yourself. So to save any bother hassle we are just going to place you in this large cannon and shoot you at this tree.

[drivin_me_nuts]

AJS- said:

Can you actually imagine that though? Can you imagine where you were 25 years ago, and if you had missed everything in between because you were locked in a prison for a crime you didn't commit? And being released in your mid 40s with no career and no qualifications, no friends, family who might not want to know you?

True enough that it isn't as final as death, and hopefully in many cases it would be corrected much earlier than that. But the argument that we can't have the death penalty because it will result in killing the wrong people betrays a real lack of faith in our justice system, warranted or not, and puts us in the uncomfortable position of accepting that people may be wrongly convicted, imprisoned and have their life ruined, but it's somehow OK because at least we didn't kill them.

It is a terrible thing when it happens and it does happen. Sadly people do become institutionalised (OK, this perhaps isn't the 'story' as played out by character Red in the Shawshank Redemption, but there are processes in place to help. Far better to live with the knowledge that we imprisoned the wrong man and then set him free, than to think we imprisoned the wrong man, executed him and then said, a number of months and years later 'oh well, he would have spent 25 year inside. He was innocent mind, but better he be dead than go through that'.

I'd rather live with the knowledge of a legal systems that fails (very badly at times), than one that offers no way of redressing wrongs other than a posthumous pardon. For me, that's too terrible to consider.

[AW35]

AJS- said:

Can you actually imagine that though? Can you imagine where you were 25 years ago, and if you had missed everything in between because you were locked in a prison for a crime you didn't commit? And being released in your mid 40s with no career and no qualifications, no friends, family who might not want to know you?

True enough that it isn't as final as death, and hopefully in many cases it would be corrected much earlier than that. But the argument that we can't have the death penalty because it will result in killing the wrong people betrays a real lack of faith in our justice system, warranted or not, and puts us in the uncomfortable position of accepting that people may be wrongly convicted, imprisoned and have their life ruined, but it's somehow OK because at least we didn't kill them.

That is what compensation is for, at least to make some amends. So if you spend 10 years in jail you may get say £1m. Of course if you work for Rupert Murdoch you get £11m before even being sent to jail... ho ho.

[AJS-]

I don't claim to have all the answers, and I tend to change my mind on the matter quite regularly too.

I do believe that the death penalty is an appropriate punishment for certain crimes so the idealistic solution is to improve the legal system to the point that we have sufficient faith in it to alow it to hand down the ultimate sanction for the most heinous of crimes.

The realist in me says that no justice system administered by human beings can ever be perfect. Thus the choice becomes at what level of error do we say it's good enough? Which gives us the distasteful task of deciding how many innocent people we are prepared to kill by mistake.

It would be nice to say none. It even seems like a basic requirement of common decency. However innocent people do die in the course of justice in wars, in policing and in custody whether at the hands of another inmate or by suicide or old age. It's incredibly sad, but we don't dispense with the military or with police or prisons to avoid this.

If it's simply a matter of the degree of horriblenesss of consequences then it's understandable, but why at that point? If there's something more fundamental than that, something that makes ruining a life more acceptable than ending one then it's something I don't very well understand.

[Chimune]

AJS- said:

Can you actually imagine that though? Can you imagine where you were 25 years ago, and if you had missed everything in between because you were locked in a prison for a crime you didn't commit? And being released in your mid 40s with no career and no qualifications, no friends, family who might not want to know you?

So the next 40 years is write off ? Not worth anything ? Nothing positive can be retrieved from the situation?

[Robb F]

thinfourth2 said:

AW35 said:

The poll question I find interesting, doesn't even mention what for. Of course in the old days capital punishment was handed out for far less henious crimes than today. Nowadays we are more civilised and everyone wants to continue that trend I presume.

Leaving instant coffee granules in the communal sugar bowl

Bang to rights I say

[AJS-]

Chimune said:

So the next 40 years is write off ? Not worth anything ? Nothing positive can be retrieved from the situation?

It's always possible, but very, very difficult.

[otolith]

Robb F said:

thinfourth2 said:

AW35 said:

The poll question I find interesting, doesn't even mention what for. Of course in the old days capital punishment was handed out for far less henious crimes than today. Nowadays we are more civilised and everyone wants to continue that trend I presume.

Leaving instant coffee granules in the communal sugar bowl

Bang to rights I say

Too good for them.

[Mojocvh]

No.

I'm afraid that giving the STATE power of execution over it's citizens would be a BAD thing.

[craig7l]

Derek Smith said:

That has been tried in the past, although not for reasons of revenge but to help the person come to terms with their crime and improve. It was a disaster if recidivism is seen as a bad thing.

revenge, i was talking justice for ther utter most extreme crimes... and recidivism isnt a factor as once they get there low cost pod the only way out is in a low cost box.

[Koofler]

Great Ormond Street Hospital Christmas presents stolen

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-207662...

I'd happily chip in to not only replace the presents but to buy the rope to hang these s.

No doubt, if they are caught, we'll get the usual hand wringing excuses.....

[crankedup]

It is a close call as to whether this would be a sensible punishment. For me after the personal anger has subsided I would vote no. Much better to see this type of criminal serve full life of hardship.

[loafer123]

crankedup said:

It is a close call as to whether this would be a sensible punishment. For me after the personal anger has subsided I would vote no. Much better to see this type of criminal serve full life of hardship.

I agree. But I do think that prisons should involve more breaking of rocks and learning and less playing games and watching TV.

[Willie Dee]

No, evidence has shown the death penalty results in violent crime going up, I do not want to satisfy peoples little revenge fantasies that almost certainly wouldn't come to fruition at the cost of living in a more violent society.