Floating voter - UKIP why not?
Discussion
aizvara said:
On PH, if anyone professes views that are other than those of the far right it is seen as insulting.
If you wander into the woods, you'll find a lot of trees. If you wander into UKIP threads...Many of those on PH who are more moderate, or even just can't easily be placed onto the lazy left-right scale, tend to avoid threads like these as they always go the same way...
The Black Flash said:
eharding said:
thinfourth2 said:
Well if you want to belive in man made up global warming and go out of your way to insult anyone who might even say anything silight negative about our current immigrant policy might i suggest you p
s off to the greenpeace forum
Hang on, not 10 minutes ago you where whining on about personal insults, and now you're inviting folk to "ps off to the greenpeace forums off"?Nice.
I don't actually care if UKIP are xenophobic, swivel eyed or spittle flecked.
If I vote for them, it's entirely in order to send a message to the leaders of the other parties that despite their assertions, there is a growing section of society for whom our continued membership of the EU is a major concern.
I'm not immature or narrow minded enough to think that the EU is the cause of all the woes in this country, far from it. But I don't want my country to subsidise large, unelected and unaccountable (Euro MP voting is merely a sop to the populace, not an act of democracy) body who wishes to spend ever increasing amounts of money chasing a dream they've had for the last 40 years of a single, federal state.
I also don't care who wins the next election, both main parties (Lib Dems are finished, they've had their 15 minutes and will have to reinvent themselves again before their voters will trust them) just differ by degrees from the same centrist, populist politics that is harming the country in the long term, but serving their purpose of getting re-elected in the short term.
So for me, the vehicle by which my protest vote is sent is immaterial - swivel eyed they may be but while they're the only party that offers any chance of exit or re-negotiation of our relationship with the EU, they get my vote.
If I vote for them, it's entirely in order to send a message to the leaders of the other parties that despite their assertions, there is a growing section of society for whom our continued membership of the EU is a major concern.
I'm not immature or narrow minded enough to think that the EU is the cause of all the woes in this country, far from it. But I don't want my country to subsidise large, unelected and unaccountable (Euro MP voting is merely a sop to the populace, not an act of democracy) body who wishes to spend ever increasing amounts of money chasing a dream they've had for the last 40 years of a single, federal state.
I also don't care who wins the next election, both main parties (Lib Dems are finished, they've had their 15 minutes and will have to reinvent themselves again before their voters will trust them) just differ by degrees from the same centrist, populist politics that is harming the country in the long term, but serving their purpose of getting re-elected in the short term.
So for me, the vehicle by which my protest vote is sent is immaterial - swivel eyed they may be but while they're the only party that offers any chance of exit or re-negotiation of our relationship with the EU, they get my vote.
OK, that's fine as a protest vote, but I doubt that UKIP has much chance of influencing national policy.
If there was a General Election tomorrow, I would not know who to vote for. I have voted Labour since my first go in 1982, often with reluctance, and save for 2005, when I voted Lib Dem in protest. I can't support any party at present. I hate not voting, as votes are precious.
If there was a General Election tomorrow, I would not know who to vote for. I have voted Labour since my first go in 1982, often with reluctance, and save for 2005, when I voted Lib Dem in protest. I can't support any party at present. I hate not voting, as votes are precious.
ewenm said:
If you wander into the woods, you'll find a lot of trees. If you wander into UKIP threads...
Many of those on PH who are more moderate, or even just can't easily be placed onto the lazy left-right scale, tend to avoid threads like these as they always go the same way...
Yeah, good advice. I just came in to answer the OP's question, which seemed to have been stated in a reasonable manner, by putting forward my own situation (and that of my friends and workplace). It appears that the topic has sparked some, er... robust discussion. Many of those on PH who are more moderate, or even just can't easily be placed onto the lazy left-right scale, tend to avoid threads like these as they always go the same way...
eharding said:
...ah, and thereby invoking the spittle-flecked wrath of the 'kipper troglodytes and associated pond-life? 
It sometimes seems that way.Breadvan72 said:
thinfourth2 said:
...
I really really don't belive in global warming
Who should i vote for?
....
I am sorry to be harsh, but, given your apparent grip on evidence based scientific consensus, maybe try a vote for the Flying Unicorn Party? I really really don't belive in global warming
Who should i vote for?
....
In any event, single issue voting is a tad limiting.
Breadvan72 said:
OK, that's fine as a protest vote, but I doubt that UKIP has much chance of influencing national policy.
If there was a General Election tomorrow, I would not know who to vote for. I have voted Labour since my first go in 1982, often with reluctance, and save for 2005, when I voted Lib Dem in protest. I can't support any party at present. I hate not voting, as votes are precious.
Do as I did last time, spoil your vote.If there was a General Election tomorrow, I would not know who to vote for. I have voted Labour since my first go in 1982, often with reluctance, and save for 2005, when I voted Lib Dem in protest. I can't support any party at present. I hate not voting, as votes are precious.
I'm in Hague's constituency, we'd have a pig in lipstick as MP if it wore a blue rosette. It's not even that I dislike Hague personally, he's actually quite a nice chap but I couldn't vote for the 'more of the same' Conservatives. No minority party bothers to put up a candidate here (save for the Greens, and if you want swivel-eyed and spittle flecked, just try suggesting that the Dales shouldn't be covered in wind farms to our local Green candidate) and a mainstream vote for anyone but Hague was a wasted vote.
Rumours are that UKIP will put more candidates up in areas like this next time round, and if they do, I may well put my tick in their box. I know they have a hope in hell of winning, I also know they have only a slight chance of influencing the others, but it's the best of a bad lot for me and if enough people swing to UKIP, a message is sent to the mainstream parties and we all know that a political party likes nothing more than a passing bandwagon to hop onto, if they think there's a swing in voter attitudes, they'll be saying "Non" to Europe faster than an EU commissioner being asked to work after 3pm on a Friday.
Phil1 said:
Breadvan72 said:
thinfourth2 said:
...
I really really don't belive in global warming
Who should i vote for?
....
I am sorry to be harsh, but, given your apparent grip on evidence based scientific consensus, maybe try a vote for the Flying Unicorn Party? I really really don't belive in global warming
Who should i vote for?
....
In any event, single issue voting is a tad limiting.
How are things over on Planet Flat these days?
Breadvan72 said:
Phil1 said:
Breadvan72 said:
thinfourth2 said:
...
I really really don't belive in global warming
Who should i vote for?
....
I am sorry to be harsh, but, given your apparent grip on evidence based scientific consensus, maybe try a vote for the Flying Unicorn Party? I really really don't belive in global warming
Who should i vote for?
....
In any event, single issue voting is a tad limiting.
Breadvan72 said:
I am sorry to be harsh, but, given your apparent grip on evidence based scientific consensus, maybe try a vote for the Flying Unicorn Party?
In any event, single issue voting is a tad limiting.
You're not being harsh, but you are just demonstrating some gullibility.In any event, single issue voting is a tad limiting.
No true scientist would rely on "evidence based scientific consensus".
In fact, when the Royal Society was founded 350 years ago, they warned people against accepting the consensus by adopting the motto "Nullius in Verba".
Don
--
Arguing with climate change deniers is like arguing with the religious. I have a good understanding of scientific method. Petrolheads tend to be deniers because it suits their lifestyle. I am a petrolhead, but I don't ignore the data collected and the analyses carried out in peer reviewed research. I do discount lobbying on behalf of petrochemical interests. When the deniers have Lord Monckton as their spokesman, that may say something about the argument.
Breadvan72 said:
Nope, far from it. I would like the UK to leave the EU and join EFTA. Take a realistic look at the policies and voter profiles of UKIP. Its supporters get very fraught and shouty whenever it is suggested that the party is an extremist party, but its platform and associations support this criticism.
How else do you envisage this happening without strong support for UKIP putting pressure on the other parties?Breadvan72 said:
I do not envisage it happening. If it does, it will be a result of a policy choice by Cameron if he wins in 2015. UKIP is a marginal factor, I think. It is not helped by being associated with "characters" such as Mr Farage.
I disagree with practically everything you say but especially that, watching him rip Rumpy Pumpy a new one and all the other Eurodossers is worth a vote alone. If you were to make a valid point about Farage it would be that UKIP would be bugger all without him...he is UKIPGassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff