Floating voter - UKIP why not?
Discussion
Breadvan72 said:
I have met lots of Old Labourites and Trade Unionists, having grown up amongst such people in Birmingham.
then unless the good workers of brum are far nicer than those of merseyside you will know that such attitudes are prevalent not just 'can be found'. knowledge which makes your 'right is nasty' mantra duplicitous instead of dumbmartin84 said:
Fittster said:
They use the argument that they have a populate mandate to legitimize their decisions. The smaller the turnout the less authority those decisions have.
Labour didn't seem to think their decisions were made with less authority after winning an election in 2001 in which less than 60% voted.Fittster said:
That's still more than half the population but the numbers are steadily declining, which isn't something to be positive about.
There was a spike in 2010, people are generally more interested in voting when there's issues going on to care about, in 2001 there was little to complain about and Labours first term had run rather smoothly, so most people weren't bothered.Turnout figures:
2010: 65%
2005: 61%
2001: 59%
1997: 71%
1992: 77%
1987: 75%
1983: 72%
1979: 76%
Oct 1974: 72%
Feb 1974: 78%
1970: 72%
thinfourth2 said:
Okay a question to the right on crowd who hate the UKIP and are desperate to show how much they aren't racist
Lets step away from the europe issue
I really really don't belive in global warming
Who should i vote for?
As i can't vote UKIP as that would make me racist
How about something called The New Party?Lets step away from the europe issue
I really really don't belive in global warming
Who should i vote for?
As i can't vote UKIP as that would make me racist
New Party manifesto on Energy said:
Facing the Energy Crisis
Key Proposals
New generation nuclear power stations,including PBMR
Research into new sources of energy
Phase in the use of coal for chemical production, minimising dependence on oil
The environment has become a key focus of concern for politicians and campaign groups in recent years, yet the related debate about energy supply is all too often sidelined. If we intend to deal with the inevitable energy crisis in the coming decades, then we need to start building now. If we do not take the correct decisions, we risk escalating costs, environmental damage and much greater dependence on unstable and potentially hostile regimes.
The consumption of fossil fuels at the present rate is plainly unsustainable. Valuable hydrocarbon resources need to be conserved for use as raw materials for the chemical industry, and environmental considerations dictate a move away from fossil fuels for power generation.
Renewable energy sources should play a bigger part in the overall energy picture. Most forms of renewable energy, suitable for use in Britain, have a valuable role in topping up supplies from conventional means but cannot be scaled to meet peak demand. For example, wind turbines suffer from variability and only generate electricity at around 25% of their stated output thus requiring conventional power stations on constant stand-by to meet demand. A number of countries have already shelved plans for additional wind-farms as their unreliability and huge cost becomes plain.
Safe nuclear power
The problem of nuclear waste is already with us and the commissioning of new nuclear stations will add but a small fraction to the problem.
New generation nuclear power technologies such as fusion reactors are cleaner, safer and more efficient than the older designs. They recycle fuel and produce relatively small amounts of waste which becomes safe in a much shorter time. According to the Director of Reactor Technology at BNFL, the new APR reactor designs will produce only 10% of the waste of existing plants. A Royal Academy of Engineering report estimates that electricity generating costs of new nuclear power stations will be broadly equivalent to those of gas and cheaper than other sources, even when decommissioning costs are included.
But there is another nuclear technology that is available now, is much safer than existing designs, creates fewer waste problems and is easily scalable. This is the Pebble Bed Modular Reactor (PBMR). Unlike most current commercial reactors, the PBMR does not require cooling water. Most incidents involving the release of radioactivity from nuclear plants have been caused by malfunctions of the cooling water system. The PBMR is cooled by helium, which is an inert gas that does not degrade the materials it is contained in.
New technologies
For reasons of cost, environmental protection and strategic protection of our energy supplies, the New Party would replace older nuclear plants with a new generation of advanced nuclear power stations. We will promote research into additional sources of energy, including renewable sources, advanced nuclear fission, nuclear fusion and other potential new technologies. We will also encourage additional reduction of carbon burning by providing greater economic incentives for the early take-up of new energy technologies and the use of alternative sources of power in vehicles and buildings. Our aim in the medium term is to phase in the use of coal for chemical production thus minimising our dependence on oil and conserving it for more
specialist uses.
However, we recognise the absolute need to conserve finite reserves and our proposals to build new self contained and environmentally friendly towns would also make a significant impact on reducing demand.
Seems pretty sensible & pragmatic to me.Key Proposals
New generation nuclear power stations,including PBMR
Research into new sources of energy
Phase in the use of coal for chemical production, minimising dependence on oil
The environment has become a key focus of concern for politicians and campaign groups in recent years, yet the related debate about energy supply is all too often sidelined. If we intend to deal with the inevitable energy crisis in the coming decades, then we need to start building now. If we do not take the correct decisions, we risk escalating costs, environmental damage and much greater dependence on unstable and potentially hostile regimes.
The consumption of fossil fuels at the present rate is plainly unsustainable. Valuable hydrocarbon resources need to be conserved for use as raw materials for the chemical industry, and environmental considerations dictate a move away from fossil fuels for power generation.
Renewable energy sources should play a bigger part in the overall energy picture. Most forms of renewable energy, suitable for use in Britain, have a valuable role in topping up supplies from conventional means but cannot be scaled to meet peak demand. For example, wind turbines suffer from variability and only generate electricity at around 25% of their stated output thus requiring conventional power stations on constant stand-by to meet demand. A number of countries have already shelved plans for additional wind-farms as their unreliability and huge cost becomes plain.
Safe nuclear power
The problem of nuclear waste is already with us and the commissioning of new nuclear stations will add but a small fraction to the problem.
New generation nuclear power technologies such as fusion reactors are cleaner, safer and more efficient than the older designs. They recycle fuel and produce relatively small amounts of waste which becomes safe in a much shorter time. According to the Director of Reactor Technology at BNFL, the new APR reactor designs will produce only 10% of the waste of existing plants. A Royal Academy of Engineering report estimates that electricity generating costs of new nuclear power stations will be broadly equivalent to those of gas and cheaper than other sources, even when decommissioning costs are included.
But there is another nuclear technology that is available now, is much safer than existing designs, creates fewer waste problems and is easily scalable. This is the Pebble Bed Modular Reactor (PBMR). Unlike most current commercial reactors, the PBMR does not require cooling water. Most incidents involving the release of radioactivity from nuclear plants have been caused by malfunctions of the cooling water system. The PBMR is cooled by helium, which is an inert gas that does not degrade the materials it is contained in.
New technologies
For reasons of cost, environmental protection and strategic protection of our energy supplies, the New Party would replace older nuclear plants with a new generation of advanced nuclear power stations. We will promote research into additional sources of energy, including renewable sources, advanced nuclear fission, nuclear fusion and other potential new technologies. We will also encourage additional reduction of carbon burning by providing greater economic incentives for the early take-up of new energy technologies and the use of alternative sources of power in vehicles and buildings. Our aim in the medium term is to phase in the use of coal for chemical production thus minimising our dependence on oil and conserving it for more
specialist uses.
However, we recognise the absolute need to conserve finite reserves and our proposals to build new self contained and environmentally friendly towns would also make a significant impact on reducing demand.
They also have a flat rate tax policy, which I like, and aren't led by Nigel Farage, which I like even more. I doubt they stand any chance of being elected any time soon, but then again neither do UKIP, so they're equal on that front.
fbrs said:
Breadvan72 said:
I have met lots of Old Labourites and Trade Unionists, having grown up amongst such people in Birmingham.
then unless the good workers of brum are far nicer than those of merseyside you will know that such attitudes are prevalent not just 'can be found'. knowledge which makes your 'right is nasty' mantra duplicitous instead of dumbEdited by anonymous-user on Friday 5th October 18:55
Thanks for the replies.
If I've followed this so far the negatives are perceived by some to be:
a) a wasted vote if they are unlikely to get in.
b) a policy of allowing some smoking in public.
c) a policy which refutes man made climate changes impact.
d) some people will assume you are a racist, xenophobic or sympathiser etc even without evidence.
e) a reliance on their current leader to sustain the party.
f) disputed figures over the financial effects of a withdrawal from the EU.
Have I missed any?
If I've followed this so far the negatives are perceived by some to be:
a) a wasted vote if they are unlikely to get in.
b) a policy of allowing some smoking in public.
c) a policy which refutes man made climate changes impact.
d) some people will assume you are a racist, xenophobic or sympathiser etc even without evidence.
e) a reliance on their current leader to sustain the party.
f) disputed figures over the financial effects of a withdrawal from the EU.
Have I missed any?
brenflys777 said:
Thanks for the replies.
If I've followed this so far the negatives are perceived by some to be:
a) a wasted vote if they are unlikely to get in.
b) a policy of allowing some smoking in public.
c) a policy which refutes man made climate changes impact.
d) some people will assume you are a racist, xenophobic or sympathiser etc even without evidence.
e) a reliance on their current leader to sustain the party.
f) disputed figures over the financial effects of a withdrawal from the EU.
Have I missed any?
g) They get really arsey if you mention (a)-(f)If I've followed this so far the negatives are perceived by some to be:
a) a wasted vote if they are unlikely to get in.
b) a policy of allowing some smoking in public.
c) a policy which refutes man made climate changes impact.
d) some people will assume you are a racist, xenophobic or sympathiser etc even without evidence.
e) a reliance on their current leader to sustain the party.
f) disputed figures over the financial effects of a withdrawal from the EU.
Have I missed any?
Breadvan72 said:
UKIP propagates a lot of misinformation about the EU, and plays on xenophobic feelings amongst voters. This analysis of its voter profile is quite interesting:-
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2012/06/25/euros...
And for an encore could you please point out which party consistently tells the truth.http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2012/06/25/euros...
eharding said:
brenflys777 said:
Thanks for the replies.
If I've followed this so far the negatives are perceived by some to be:
a) a wasted vote if they are unlikely to get in.
b) a policy of allowing some smoking in public.
c) a policy which refutes man made climate changes impact.
d) some people will assume you are a racist, xenophobic or sympathiser etc even without evidence.
e) a reliance on their current leader to sustain the party.
f) disputed figures over the financial effects of a withdrawal from the EU.
Have I missed any?
g) They get really arsey if you mention (a)-(f)If I've followed this so far the negatives are perceived by some to be:
a) a wasted vote if they are unlikely to get in.
b) a policy of allowing some smoking in public.
c) a policy which refutes man made climate changes impact.
d) some people will assume you are a racist, xenophobic or sympathiser etc even without evidence.
e) a reliance on their current leader to sustain the party.
f) disputed figures over the financial effects of a withdrawal from the EU.
Have I missed any?
eharding said:
So...tell me what you see...
1) A Butterfly?
2) Two Brussels Eurocrats plotting to destroy the UK?
3) Two eastern-European plumbers fixing a blocked khazi for 20% of the fee one of our own home-bred plumbers would charge?
Two lesbians with feathery hats around a cauldron trying to spear a butterfly with their chests? Psychometric testing has always passed me 1) A Butterfly?
2) Two Brussels Eurocrats plotting to destroy the UK?
3) Two eastern-European plumbers fixing a blocked khazi for 20% of the fee one of our own home-bred plumbers would charge?
otolith said:
I assumed most people had come across it before, sorry about that. If you haven't, you may find it interesting to go through the questionaire it is based on and see where the results place you;
http://www.politicalcompass.org/test
I've never seen that graph before... it was very interesting but I think the questions may be flawed - I answered honestly and ended up at the same pointhttp://www.politicalcompass.org/test
as the Dalai Lama.
brenflys777 said:
I've never seen that graph before... it was very interesting but I think the questions may be flawed - I answered honestly and ended up at the same point
as the Dalai Lama.
I did the same and am closest to the Greens in terms of where I ended up on the graph!as the Dalai Lama.
Wasn't there a thread on this a while back and most PHers who took the test came out as on the Libertarian Left?
bennyboydurham said:
I'm certainly a man of the right and vote accordingly but I've been somewhat underwhelmed with the record of Dave's government so far, with the rather selfish exception of the NPPF which certainly helped me secure planning permission for a house recently. I like Farage, and much of what he says I find appealing. Most Brits are naturally sceptical about rules emerging from the Continent and as much as I love a driving holiday around Brittany or a stay in a Tucan Casa as much as the next man, I share that feeling. Britain is not physically part of Europe and the Channel creates a gap between us that runs deeper and wider than its 21 miles. If you recall when Dave kiboshed the EU treaty and stood up for Britain, his poll ratings soared as people saw him as having a set of balls. We need more of this, but sadly that change isn't going to come about from UKIP, as they are generally marginalised as swivel-eyed one-issue lunatics within the wider political debate, no matter how unfair that portrayal might be.
It's painfully obvious to me that 13 years of left-wingery has politicised the country to an alarming degree, with place men entrenched into positions in which politics has no place. The Police's overdone response to the Andrew Mitchell affair said much about how they feel about the government and their willingness to humiliate those who they see as foes. Andrew Mitchell is a prize prick without question and he deserved a slap but I'm squarely of the opinion that The Police were happy to let matter rumble on in order to score more political points. The broadcast media also has a culture of institutional Leftism that only really abated once it became clear that Gordon Brown was an utter lunatic and that the narrative of the ongoing disaster of his government made better telly than leaving it alone. Blair got an almost comically easy ride, as the famous 'the corridors of Broadcasting House were strewn with empty champagne bottles - I will always remember that' quote by BBC's Jane Garvey after Labour's 1997 victory will attest.
So for me, anything that stands up to the cancerous forces of Leftism is a good thing and if that's Dave's underwhelming Tories then so be it. UKIP cost the Tories the last election and will certainly allow PM Millit
t to walk into Downing St in 2015. I'm hoping that Boris tries his hand before then, as he's the only Tory politician that stands a chance of keeping Britain blue.
This is what has let the right down in the UK for the last 20 years. A failed effort to keep Britain blue by being as middle of the road as possible in the vain hope that a few people will switch from Labour and the Lib Dems and hand the Tories a working majority, with which they will do nothing worthwhile anyway. They even formed this absurd coalition with the Lib Dems simply to keep Labour out - why? What single conservative cause has this advanced? It's painfully obvious to me that 13 years of left-wingery has politicised the country to an alarming degree, with place men entrenched into positions in which politics has no place. The Police's overdone response to the Andrew Mitchell affair said much about how they feel about the government and their willingness to humiliate those who they see as foes. Andrew Mitchell is a prize prick without question and he deserved a slap but I'm squarely of the opinion that The Police were happy to let matter rumble on in order to score more political points. The broadcast media also has a culture of institutional Leftism that only really abated once it became clear that Gordon Brown was an utter lunatic and that the narrative of the ongoing disaster of his government made better telly than leaving it alone. Blair got an almost comically easy ride, as the famous 'the corridors of Broadcasting House were strewn with empty champagne bottles - I will always remember that' quote by BBC's Jane Garvey after Labour's 1997 victory will attest.
So for me, anything that stands up to the cancerous forces of Leftism is a good thing and if that's Dave's underwhelming Tories then so be it. UKIP cost the Tories the last election and will certainly allow PM Millit
t to walk into Downing St in 2015. I'm hoping that Boris tries his hand before then, as he's the only Tory politician that stands a chance of keeping Britain blue. I sincerely hate Labour as a party and a political movement, but there's no point in having a Tory or coalition government that is just slightly less awful, busily making itself unpopular to let Labour back in again next time.
I'm happy to keep the Tories in opposition for as long as it takes for them to get the message that they need to have a coherent, conservative agenda for government, that includes a self governing sovereign nation.
AJS- said:
I'm happy to keep the Tories in opposition for as long as it takes for them to get the message that they need to have a coherent, conservative agenda for government, that includes a self governing sovereign nation.
Indeed. It is rather like teaching a child right from wrong. Now they have to learn that they were in the wrong so that they can get it right next time.brenflys777 said:
eharding said:
So...tell me what you see...
1) A Butterfly?
2) Two Brussels Eurocrats plotting to destroy the UK?
3) Two eastern-European plumbers fixing a blocked khazi for 20% of the fee one of our own home-bred plumbers would charge?
Two lesbians with feathery hats around a cauldron trying to spear a butterfly with their chests? Psychometric testing has always passed me 1) A Butterfly?
2) Two Brussels Eurocrats plotting to destroy the UK?
3) Two eastern-European plumbers fixing a blocked khazi for 20% of the fee one of our own home-bred plumbers would charge?
AJS- said:
This is what has let the right down in the UK for the last 20 years. A failed effort to keep Britain blue by being as middle of the road as possible in the vain hope that a few people will switch from Labour and the Lib Dems and hand the Tories a working majority, with which they will do nothing worthwhile anyway. They even formed this absurd coalition with the Lib Dems simply to keep Labour out - why? What single conservative cause has this advanced?
I sincerely hate Labour as a party and a political movement, but there's no point in having a Tory or coalition government that is just slightly less awful, busily making itself unpopular to let Labour back in again next time.
I'm happy to keep the Tories in opposition for as long as it takes for them to get the message that they need to have a coherent, conservative agenda for government, that includes a self governing sovereign nation.
..and that is one of the most succinct distillations of the quintessential UKIP bark-at-the-moon "If we can't have everything we want, now, then we just want to burn the whole country down" self-indulgent mantra I've yet witnessed.I sincerely hate Labour as a party and a political movement, but there's no point in having a Tory or coalition government that is just slightly less awful, busily making itself unpopular to let Labour back in again next time.
I'm happy to keep the Tories in opposition for as long as it takes for them to get the message that they need to have a coherent, conservative agenda for government, that includes a self governing sovereign nation.
Congratulations. I think you've chalked up a new personal best there.
Meanwhile, as you spend your declining decades howling in the political void, folk who understand the messy business of the middle-ground will continue to hold power. Best get a large stock of Strepsils in old son, because all that howling is going to play Hell with your throat.
eharding said:
..and that is one of the most succinct distillations of the quintessential UKIP bark-at-the-moon "If we can't have everything we want, now, then we just want to burn the whole country down" self-indulgent mantra I've yet witnessed.
Congratulations. I think you've chalked up a new personal best there.
Meanwhile, as you spend your declining decades howling in the political void, folk who understand the messy business of the middle-ground will continue to hold power. Best get a large stock of Strepsils in old son, because all that howling is going to play Hell with your throat.
So the Tories understand the middle ground do they? Then why have they continually failed to win an election for the last 20 years? Even when the immensely incompetent Gordon Brown drove the country straight into a massive recession, the best the Tories could manage was a coalition with the Lib Dems, who in a number of areas are even more left wing than Labour. Congratulations. I think you've chalked up a new personal best there.
Meanwhile, as you spend your declining decades howling in the political void, folk who understand the messy business of the middle-ground will continue to hold power. Best get a large stock of Strepsils in old son, because all that howling is going to play Hell with your throat.
And they're not going to win the next one either by the look of things.
By the way, feel free to actually make a counter argument and tell me the conservative policies that the current government have implemented, or that letting Labour back in at the next election will be fine and dandy, or even that the Tories will win the next election with a reasonable majority. If you have an argument to make, rather than strange analogies about my sore throat.
Edited by AJS- on Friday 5th October 21:58
Prof Beard said:
brenflys777 said:
eharding said:
So...tell me what you see...
1) A Butterfly?
2) Two Brussels Eurocrats plotting to destroy the UK?
3) Two eastern-European plumbers fixing a blocked khazi for 20% of the fee one of our own home-bred plumbers would charge?
Two lesbians with feathery hats around a cauldron trying to spear a butterfly with their chests? Psychometric testing has always passed me 1) A Butterfly?
2) Two Brussels Eurocrats plotting to destroy the UK?
3) Two eastern-European plumbers fixing a blocked khazi for 20% of the fee one of our own home-bred plumbers would charge?
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