Floating voter - UKIP why not?

[smegmore]

eharding said:

So...tell me what you see...



1) A Butterfly?

2) Two Brussels Eurocrats plotting to destroy the UK?

3) Two eastern-European plumbers fixing a blocked khazi for 20% of the fee one of our own home-bred plumbers would charge?

None of the above.

I see...2 typical Londoners DPing an ashtray with attendant fireworks.

Does this help?

[Mst007]

If nothing else this thread has been fascinating to see everyone's differing opinions. In my view, our political system is broken, our Sovereignty and decision-making powers dangerously close to being politically irrelevant, yet UKIP supporters are derided by some for being potential swivel-eyed, rascist (ffs), one-issue far right wingers. I am honestly not surprised, they are bigger on Youtube than in the MSM, and not given a fair crack of the whip. Even dodgy Baroness Farsi stooped to associate them with BNP, idiot.

Perhaps we are all missing the point though? Is it the Party system itself that is broken? Would we be better served with local people representing their local electorate with no party affiliations, no safe seats, no 2nd House, just true representation. Does that sound workeable? The EU wouldnt like it mind.

[Prof Beard]

Actually AJS, I sympathise with you even though your politics disgust me as much as I suspect mine would disgust you. You are yearning for politicians who actually believe in something.... Sadly the days of "ideology" are long gone in mainstream western politics: all we have now are self serving people who see politics as a career and to whom principles are things best avoided.

[smegmore]

Prof Beard said:

.... Sadly the days of "ideology" are long gone in mainstream western politics: all we have now are self serving people who see politics as a career and to whom principles are things best avoided.

+1 in a nutshell.

[AJS-]

Mst007 said:

Perhaps we are all missing the point though? Is it the Party system itself that is broken? Would we be better served with local people representing their local electorate with no party affiliations, no safe seats, no 2nd House, just true representation. Does that sound workeable? The EU wouldnt like it mind.

In a sense I think you're right, but politicians would naturally form alliances and make deals with each other. At least with a party system their policies and political allies are known, rather than decided once in parliament.

I'd go a step further and say representative democracy has probably had it's day.

[AJS-]

Prof Beard said:

Actually AJS, I sympathise with you even though your politics disgust me as much as I suspect mine would disgust you. You are yearning for politicians who actually believe in something.... Sadly the days of "ideology" are long gone in mainstream western politics: all we have now are self serving people who see politics as a career and to whom principles are things best avoided.

Kind of. Not some grand scheme I wish to implement or anything, but an ideology that can inform decisions, rather than the listless opportunism that is the only frame of reference most politicians seem to have.


Not sure I've ever disgusted anyone with my politics before, but thanks!

[bennyboydurham]

I know, make the Queen the boss again. I for one would happily have Liz as the proper ruler. No more politics, no more BS, she could just get on with running the country and making the trains run on time. Run all planning decisions past Charlie so instead of these awful Lefty concrete monstrosities you'd end up with Britain looking like it does on Downton Abbey. Phil the Greek could look after health, as he seems to like nurses and Harry could be in charge of education, as he seems to enjoy himself when he's supposed to be learning.

[Ross1988]

Breadvan72 said:

UKIP are single issue fanatics, with strong elements of xenophobia in their platform. They are a party of the far right. Marginally more respectable than the BNP, perhaps, but not much. Support from such loons and charlatans as Lord Monckton hardly lends the party credibility.

Do you even read about current affairs?

With this statement I'm close to losing my 'call someone and imbecile on the Internet' virginity.

[anonymous-user]

"call someone and imbecile"? Yes, that's quite a cherry to pop. Why, I wonder, do people get so agitated when it is pointed out that UKIP are a party of the far right? Look at their policies, and their political allies. Monckton's charlatan credentials are fairly apparent . Look him up. Also, feel free to use some arguments. If you prefer just yelling in a rage because someone says something you don't like, that's your call.

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 5th October 23:13

[brenflys777]

Breadvan72 said:

UKIP = BNP for people who don't like tattoos.

I'm not entirely convinced by the reasoned arguments you have presented, but I'm also troubled by this quandary you present, as I loathe the BNP, quite like tattoos, but am considering voting UKIP.

[anonymous-user]

OK, but we have to know - prison tats, or army tats? The rule is: Army = Bad sex, good tattoos. Prison = Bad tattoos, good sex. Hope that helps a bit.

[powerstroke]

Ross1988 said:

Breadvan72 said:

UKIP are single issue fanatics, with strong elements of xenophobia in their platform. They are a party of the far right. Marginally more respectable than the BNP, perhaps, but not much. Support from such loons and charlatans as Lord Monckton hardly lends the party credibility.

Do you even read about current affairs?

With this statement I'm close to losing my 'call someone and imbecile on the Internet' virginity.

Dont worry He has addmited to being a labourite ,we dont know if its the champagne socilist type or the bitter spit flecked union type!! but they all think other peoples money grows on trees if you find a gravy train to ride then do, and they love telling others how to be and think , so things like the EU are very apealing lots of non jobs and other peoples money to spray around on silly projects and endless meetings and forign trips to claim expences for, this persons favorite polical party has spent the last 13 years screwing the working poplulation of the uk so Im not in the slightest bit interested in the crap spewing on to this forum from the lefty lot....

Edited by powerstroke on Friday 5th October 23:29

[brenflys777]

Breadvan72:

I am prepared to defer to your knowledge of army and prison sex. HTH.

Edited by brenflys777 on Saturday 6th October 00:43

[otolith]

Breadvan72 said:

... it is pointed out that UKIP are a party of the far right?

Are they really further right than the Conservative party used to be? The convergence on the centre ground is disenfranchising voters, creating a political vacuum which will be filled. The same thing is happening with the likes of Respect.

[eharding]

powerstroke said:

Dont worry He has addmited to being a labourite ,we dont know if its the champagne socilist type or the bitter spit flecked union type!! but they all think other peoples money grows on trees if you find a gravy train to ride then do, and they love telling others how to be and think , so things like the EU are very apealing lots of non jobs and other peoples money to spray around on silly projects and endless meetings and forign trips to claim expences for, this persons favorite polical party has spent the last 13 years screwing the working poplulation of the uk so Im not in the slightest bit interested in the crap spewing on to this forum from the lefty lot....

Edited by powerstroke on Friday 5th October 23:29

Please tell me the reason for that edit wasn't "Edited for spelling?"

Seriously. If you've recently spunked a grand on a Dell laptop, only to find the keyboard has an intrinsic "type like a 'tard" mode that you can't turn off, then I might have some sympathy - because I know I have....but let's face it, you haven't, have you? - you've been the UKIP Special Needs 'kiptard spokesman here long enough for us to know the gibberish you keep spouting is bona-fide verbatim first-person tosh without any need for a dodgy keyboard to further encrypt things.

Try Google Chrome - it will at least highlight your howlers before you mash the 'Submit' button.

[eharding]

AJS- said:

So the Tories understand the middle ground do they? Then why have they continually failed to win an election for the last 20 years?

Because under Blair, Labour knew exactly where the middle ground was, and smarmed themselves all over it, whereas we - and I count myself as Tory realist - under young Billy H, IDS and Howard, failed miserably to do so?

[AJS-]

eharding said:

AJS- said:

So the Tories understand the middle ground do they? Then why have they continually failed to win an election for the last 20 years?

Because under Blair, Labour knew exactly where the middle ground was, and smarmed themselves all over it, whereas we - and I count myself as Tory realist - under young Billy H, IDS and Howard, failed miserably to do so?

It's a possibility. In my view though it was because they failed to get their core vote out precisely by sticking to a deceitful middle ground where they promised a smaller government without saying what they would cut, tighter controls on immigration without actually having control of immigration policy and of course lots of vague promises about a more decentralized EU without being prepared to even consider the possibility of abandoning the treaties that are not working.

Of course there is no definitive answer to this as many other factors were at play, and both strategies could increase votes. However with the strategy of chasing the middle ground you end up in the situation we now find ourselves in, where it is impossible once elected to do anything worthwhile and almost inevitable that Labour will get back in next time.

All the middle ground has given us is a few years of Not Labour, which in turn has given Labour the opportunity to blame the Tories for everything as they did for most of their time in office.

[anonymous-user]

powerstroke said:

Ross1988 said:

Breadvan72 said:

UKIP are single issue fanatics, with strong elements of xenophobia in their platform. They are a party of the far right. Marginally more respectable than the BNP, perhaps, but not much. Support from such loons and charlatans as Lord Monckton hardly lends the party credibility.

Do you even read about current affairs?

With this statement I'm close to losing my 'call someone and imbecile on the Internet' virginity.

Dont worry He has addmited to being a labourite ,we dont know if its the champagne socilist type or the bitter spit flecked union type!! but they all think other peoples money grows on trees if you find a gravy train to ride then do, and they love telling others how to be and think , so things like the EU are very apealing lots of non jobs and other peoples money to spray around on silly projects and endless meetings and forign trips to claim expences for, this persons favorite polical party has spent the last 13 years screwing the working poplulation of the uk so Im not in the slightest bit interested in the crap spewing on to this forum from the lefty lot....

Edited by powerstroke on Friday 5th October 23:29

Leaving aside the badd spooling and orthography, you appear to have missed the bit where I said that I would prefer the UK to leave the EU and join EFTA (although I do not expect this to happen), and the bit where I said that I wouldn't vote for any of the parties if there were an election tomorrow.

It is easy to blow hard, but do you do anything about the UK's problems? For example, how many illegal immigrants did you have removed from the country through your efforts in the last year? My personal count was only about sixty, but I also helped close down a bogus college/visa factory; and saved the tax payer a few million quid by resisting the application of EU procurement rules to a Government plan. It's tough up here in the ivory tower, I tell you.

As for champagne socialism, my idea of socialism is a world in which everyone could have champagne, but only if they wanted to. I don't expect this to happen. Alas, for me it's usually Prosecco in these straitened times. First World probs, bummer.

Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 6th October 06:54

[anonymous-user]

brenflys777 said:

Breadvan72:

I am prepared to defer to your knowledge of army and prison sex. HTH.

/footnote]

Cheers! I'm glad all that research is valued.

[AJS-]

Good on you for being a successful immigration lawyer, but that doesn't invalidate any political parties or opinions you don't like the look of. I might as well ask you how many people you have found better employment, or how many houses you've built. Unless you're some kind of volunteer anti immigration enthusiast who does it for fun?