Floating voter - UKIP why not?
Discussion
That would seem to damn us to an eternity of switching between an increasingly similar Labour and Conservative party at each election based on whoever has the most (or least) appealing leader at the time.
Given this I don't really care which way it goes in any given election and would rather "waste" my vote on someone who has some positive ideas for improvement that I agree with.
Given this I don't really care which way it goes in any given election and would rather "waste" my vote on someone who has some positive ideas for improvement that I agree with.
I think the problem with UKIP isn't that they are a single policy party. The problem is that they are a single personality party.
I'm sure there are people on here who could tell me who their fisheries spokesman is, but I reckon to 90% of the electorate, Nigel Farage is UKIP, and UKIP is Nigel Farage.
Farage to my mind is a real Marmite personality. You either love him or view him as a smug, smarmy git, and no party is ever going to succeed from that position.
Also, whilst UKIP may claim to be more than just an anti-Europe protest vote, it's impossible to see Farage himself as anything but.
So long as Farage is leader - or even significantly visible - I think they've hit their glass ceiling. He needs to go, but who on earth would replace him when he is UKIP?
I suspect a few UKIP supporters will be along to tell me how wrong I am, and that there is a broad raft of strong party leaders. Even if that were the case, it's irrelevant. Perception is what matters, and to the general electorate UKIP is the Nigel Farage anti EU party.
I'm sure there are people on here who could tell me who their fisheries spokesman is, but I reckon to 90% of the electorate, Nigel Farage is UKIP, and UKIP is Nigel Farage.
Farage to my mind is a real Marmite personality. You either love him or view him as a smug, smarmy git, and no party is ever going to succeed from that position.
Also, whilst UKIP may claim to be more than just an anti-Europe protest vote, it's impossible to see Farage himself as anything but.
So long as Farage is leader - or even significantly visible - I think they've hit their glass ceiling. He needs to go, but who on earth would replace him when he is UKIP?
I suspect a few UKIP supporters will be along to tell me how wrong I am, and that there is a broad raft of strong party leaders. Even if that were the case, it's irrelevant. Perception is what matters, and to the general electorate UKIP is the Nigel Farage anti EU party.
Kermit power said:
I think the problem with UKIP isn't that they are a single policy party. The problem is that they are a single personality party.
I'm sure there are people on here who could tell me who their fisheries spokesman is, but I reckon to 90% of the electorate, Nigel Farage is UKIP, and UKIP is Nigel Farage.
Farage to my mind is a real Marmite personality. You either love him or view him as a smug, smarmy git, and no party is ever going to succeed from that position.
Also, whilst UKIP may claim to be more than just an anti-Europe protest vote, it's impossible to see Farage himself as anything but.
So long as Farage is leader - or even significantly visible - I think they've hit their glass ceiling. He needs to go, but who on earth would replace him when he is UKIP?
I suspect a few UKIP supporters will be along to tell me how wrong I am, and that there is a broad raft of strong party leaders. Even if that were the case, it's irrelevant. Perception is what matters, and to the general electorate UKIP is the Nigel Farage anti EU party.
I agree but I think that's a necessary stage for a party in their position. They need a strong, visible leader to get noticed and elected. Grooming a top team takes years. UKIP is a young party and Farage a relatively young man. He could quite possibly remain as leader for another 10 years, which might sound like a recipe for a personality cult, but if they're smart now it could also be a great opportunity to develop capable leaders for the future. I don't know enough about their internal workings to know which way this will go.I'm sure there are people on here who could tell me who their fisheries spokesman is, but I reckon to 90% of the electorate, Nigel Farage is UKIP, and UKIP is Nigel Farage.
Farage to my mind is a real Marmite personality. You either love him or view him as a smug, smarmy git, and no party is ever going to succeed from that position.
Also, whilst UKIP may claim to be more than just an anti-Europe protest vote, it's impossible to see Farage himself as anything but.
So long as Farage is leader - or even significantly visible - I think they've hit their glass ceiling. He needs to go, but who on earth would replace him when he is UKIP?
I suspect a few UKIP supporters will be along to tell me how wrong I am, and that there is a broad raft of strong party leaders. Even if that were the case, it's irrelevant. Perception is what matters, and to the general electorate UKIP is the Nigel Farage anti EU party.
There is a danger in having a "personality" leader, especially one as Marmitey as Mr Farage. Some might prefer that to blandness, but he can come across as eccentric and/or self promoting. The history of UKIP shows it to be prone to bitter internal conflicts and personality contests. Of course all political parties have these to some degree, but fringe parties tend to have more extreme internal punch ups.
Incidentally regarding strange alliances in the EU Parliament, UKIP are not alone. Cameron disassociated from the EPP as it was a basically full on Federalist Party, but that hadn't stopped them for decades before when no one was paying attention to EU politics.
Labour's allies in the S&D group include the Hungarian Socialist Party, who are basically direct descendents of the pro Soviet dictatorship from the 1959s until the collapse in the late 80s, amongst other barely reformed Marxists.
Of course this partly just reflects the wildly different politics between the various countries of the EU, which is one of the reasons that trying to meld it all into one country is such an ill conceived project that constantly requires lies and omissions to stop people voting to get rid of it altogether.
The European Parliament is a strange alliance for people who believe in open democracy.
Labour's allies in the S&D group include the Hungarian Socialist Party, who are basically direct descendents of the pro Soviet dictatorship from the 1959s until the collapse in the late 80s, amongst other barely reformed Marxists.
Of course this partly just reflects the wildly different politics between the various countries of the EU, which is one of the reasons that trying to meld it all into one country is such an ill conceived project that constantly requires lies and omissions to stop people voting to get rid of it altogether.
The European Parliament is a strange alliance for people who believe in open democracy.
Breadvan72 said:
There is a danger in having a "personality" leader, especially one as Marmitey as Mr Farage. Some might prefer that to blandness, but he can come across as eccentric and/or self promoting. The history of UKIP shows it to be prone to bitter internal conflicts and personality contests. Of course all political parties have these to some degree, but fringe parties tend to have more extreme internal punch ups.
Is there a big difference with Farage/UKIP and Salmond/SNP? Every party has to start somewhere.London424 said:
Is there a big difference with Farage/UKIP and Salmond/SNP? Every party has to start somewhere.
Absolutely. I am not (and I suspect from your user name you are not either) part of their electorate, but if you actually lived in Scotland, I'd imagine the SNP must have a far broader profile than UKIP. They've got a majority in the Scottish parliament, so surely they must have a broader profile to do that?Admittedly I couldn't name anyone else from the SNP hierarchy than Salmond, but then I live hundreds of miles away from Scotland, and UKIP would have me vote for them in a general election.
This really crystallised for me with the last general election when he was in that plane crash. He's the party leader and he's running around flying banners off the back of planes?? Seriously? Since then, I've had visions of UKIP policy committees which involve Nigel with lots of little face masks on sticks jumping from one seat to another debating policies with himself.
The only other person I could mention with a link to UKIP was Kilroy Silk, and he and Farage just seem cut from the same stereotypical estate agent mould.
thinfourth2 said:
London424 said:
Is there a big difference with Farage/UKIP and Salmond/SNP? Every party has to start somewhere.
Yeah the SNP believe in the Magic money treeAlso the SNP have been running for decades
Breadvan72 said:
Naturally, UKIP states policies on a variety of isues, but their voter appeal is, I suggest, based mainly on their fundamental leave the EU stance, with additional votes attracted by protest.
at least they have a clearly stated aim.What do the other parties want to achieve ?
Breadvan72 said:
Naturally, UKIP states policies on a variety of isues, but their voter appeal is, I suggest, based mainly on their fundamental leave the EU stance, with additional votes attracted by protest.
Well if the tories ever pull their head out of their own arse and actually ask people like myself why we vote UKIP they might discover what we want to see from a partyBreadvan72 said:
Naturally, UKIP states policies on a variety of isues, but their voter appeal is, I suggest, based mainly on their fundamental leave the EU stance, with additional votes attracted by protest.
That's not really surprising given they were formed relatively recently specifically for that issue. They are in the process of evolving into a more fully fledged party, and will no doubt continue to do so as they become a more significant political force.Not much different to the Greens. Even the Labour Party started off as the Labour Representation Committee specifically committed to representing the interests of workers against industrialists, before evolving into a full fledged political movement as it moved closer to forming a government.
Breadvan72 said:
Each main party contends that it aims for the UK to be prosperous, peaceful and well governed, but neither is so closely associated with one big idea as a party like UKIP is.
Not going well for any of them, is it?Epic fail by all concerned IMHO.
We are broke and in debt
We are involved with a war in two countries, possibly illegally
Well governed? Gimme a break!
odyssey2200 said:
Breadvan72 said:
Each main party contends that it aims for the UK to be prosperous, peaceful and well governed, but neither is so closely associated with one big idea as a party like UKIP is.
Not going well for any of them, is it?Epic fail by all concerned IMHO.
We are broke and in debt
We are involved with a war in two countries, possibly illegally
Well governed? Gimme a break!
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