Floating voter - UKIP why not?

Author
Discussion

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Friday 5th October 2012
quotequote all
VoziKaoFangio said:
Oh, OK. Your original post doesn't explain this, just presents the diagram, which I took to be a diagrammatic representation of each party's entire policy. If the Green's illiberal hobby-horses aren't accounted for, then it's not much use as a general guide to where a party sites on the axis, and I presume that's also the case for all the other parties.

Thanks for the clarification.
I assumed most people had come across it before, sorry about that. If you haven't, you may find it interesting to go through the questionaire it is based on and see where the results place you;

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test


Apache

39,731 posts

283 months

Friday 5th October 2012
quotequote all
AshVX220 said:


From small seeds, big trees grow. All the time that people are voting tactically instead of what they believe, the big 3 won't learn and our form of democracy won't work. In order for democracy to work, those that wish to represent us must properly undertsand what we want and by tactically voting you deny them the ability to see what the nation wants. So, they only have the media to guide them and we all know where the majority of our media stand.
Well said Ash, and good luck.
The vociferous objection from a certain minority leads me to believe they have an agenda as I, honestly, cannot believe anyone would try and deter anyone else from voting for who they would prefer. It angers me in fact.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 5th October 2012
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thinfourth2 said:
...

I really really don't belive in global warming

Who should i vote for?

....
I am sorry to be harsh, but, given your apparent grip on evidence based scientific consensus, maybe try a vote for the Flying Unicorn Party?

In any event, single issue voting is a tad limiting.

thinfourth2

32,414 posts

203 months

Friday 5th October 2012
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
thinfourth2 said:
...

I really really don't belive in global warming

Who should i vote for?

....
I am sorry to be harsh, but, given your apparent grip on evidence based scientific consensus, maybe try a vote for the Flying Unicorn Party?

In any event, single issue voting is a tad limiting.
Well if you want to belive in man made up global warming and go out of your way to insult anyone who might even say anything silight negative about our current immigrant policy might i suggest you ps off to the greenpeace forum

AshVX220

5,929 posts

189 months

Friday 5th October 2012
quotequote all
As for the diagram, I think it places UKIP in the wrong place, they are more Right/Libertarian. They understand the need for free markets and economy to balance itself without government intervention and they appreciate that all people should be allowed to do what they want within limits without constantly being told what to do by those in power.

You know, bringing back a bit of self responsability and comoon sense, as most people complain that it's not so common anymore they would do well to read and understand the meaning and reasoning behind UKIPs policies. Instead of wailing like some Gaurdianista or Mumsnet media junky.

At the end of the day, I want a government to defend me from threats at home and abroad, to educate me and to help keep me healthy and alive. Other than that, leave me the hell alone to get on with my life.

Fittster

20,120 posts

212 months

Friday 5th October 2012
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
thinfourth2 said:
...

I really really don't belive in global warming

Who should i vote for?

....
I am sorry to be harsh, but, given your apparent grip on evidence based scientific consensus, maybe try a vote for the Flying Unicorn Party?

In any event, single issue voting is a tad limiting.
So you agree with all the views of the party you vote for?

Thankfully the position that only certain views are acceptable for a mainstream party are hammering a nail into the coffin of representative democracy.

eharding

13,602 posts

283 months

Friday 5th October 2012
quotequote all
thinfourth2 said:
but that would make me a racist xenophobe little scotlander so voting SNP would be virtually pointless


Also You will discover the SNP are very keen on the EU


As normal you can't pick apart anything UKIP sayes so you resort to insults
So...SNP nationalism good, UKIP nationalism bad?

The fact that the SNP are pro-EU, and the UKIP are EU-phobic is irrelevant - it's what they're against that casts them in the same light.

The SNP and UKIP both appeal to the same sort of mentality that blames a larger entity - be it the UK (or more specifically the English) or the EU for the entire set of woes afflicting their particular region, and subscribe to the same fixation that a political nirvana awaits should they ever manage to escape the oppressive yoke of choice. They also both promote the same sort of charismatic snake-oil merchants - Salmond and Farage are prime examples.

Which makes it all the more bizarre that you find one brand of snake-oil repellent, but appear hooked on exactly the same stuff, dressed up in a different package.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 5th October 2012
quotequote all
I don't agree with all of the positions of any one party, but suggest that voting on the basis of one issue alone is not very sensible.

Some of you get very shouty when anyone laughs at your favoured positions, but debate is better than shouting go away.

eharding

13,602 posts

283 months

Friday 5th October 2012
quotequote all
thinfourth2 said:
Well if you want to belive in man made up global warming and go out of your way to insult anyone who might even say anything silight negative about our current immigrant policy might i suggest you pcensoreds off to the greenpeace forum
Hang on, not 10 minutes ago you where whining on about personal insults, and now you're inviting folk to "pcensoreds off"?

Nice. rolleyes

VoziKaoFangio

8,202 posts

150 months

Friday 5th October 2012
quotequote all
otolith said:
VoziKaoFangio said:
Oh, OK. Your original post doesn't explain this, just presents the diagram, which I took to be a diagrammatic representation of each party's entire policy. If the Green's illiberal hobby-horses aren't accounted for, then it's not much use as a general guide to where a party sites on the axis, and I presume that's also the case for all the other parties.

Thanks for the clarification.
I assumed most people had come across it before, sorry about that. If you haven't, you may find it interesting to go through the questionaire it is based on and see where the results place you;

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test
Nope, never seen it before. Thanks for the link. Turns out I'm very close to the Greens on that chart! Having voted mostly LibDem in my life, with the occasional Tory (and even one Green vote and one UKIP vote), I was really unsure about where I'd show up. Very interesting.



Serendipity72

191 posts

138 months

Friday 5th October 2012
quotequote all
The fundamental problem here is that any educated and informed person would vote Conservative. Socialism has been repeated proven not to work.
But the Conservatives in the UK have a toxified brand, largely due to the action of the BBC, who are also shifting the blame for Gordon Brown's gross ineptitude over to the bankers. (The BBC have 50% of the UK news reach, a near monopoly that should be removed.)
Now Cameron and Osborne realise this, but they are just toxifying the brand even further, to the point where the Conservatives are looking increasingly unelectable.
This is where the UKIP come in. A Conservative party that hasn't yet been toxified too much by the BBC. So they are electable. Except that the UK has a first past the post electoral system that stops minor parties gaining any impetus. Which puts them in a Catch 22 situation.

AJI

5,180 posts

216 months

Friday 5th October 2012
quotequote all
This surely needs a poll ? ....... ( has AJS read this yet?)


anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 5th October 2012
quotequote all
Arguably, a form of socialism worked in the UK between about 1940 and 1970. The Labour Party ceased being a Socialist Party long ago.

The Don of Croy

5,977 posts

158 months

Friday 5th October 2012
quotequote all
Serendipity72 said:
The fundamental problem here is that any educated and informed person would vote Conservative.
If the Conservative Party was still conservative they'd be more attractive.

Digga

40,207 posts

282 months

Friday 5th October 2012
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
Arguably, a form of socialism worked in the UK between about 1940 and 1970. The Labour Party ceased being a Socialist Party long ago.
From 1970 onwards it was exactly the sort of socialism that Tolstoy Dosteovsky ridiculed, so not sure if serious?

My edit - my poor memory. It was his book Demons that really laced into it.

Edited by Digga on Friday 5th October 13:29

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 5th October 2012
quotequote all
Politics are groovy, innit! Some people think that the Tories aren't Tories. Others think that Labour isn't Labour (me, for example, an Old Labourite with some modern add ons). Some see Labour as lefties (they look pretty bluey to me). Some think that UKIP is non toxic. Some think that the Lib Dems are credible (OK, I made that one up). On it goes....

aizvara

2,050 posts

166 months

Friday 5th October 2012
quotequote all
I'm probably now a floating voter. In general elections I voted Labour in 97, and them or Lib Dem at least a couple of times after that. I am entirely disillusioned with both Labour and Lib Dem. The Conservative party appears to be just the worst of New Labour all over again.


However, I certainly won't vote UKIP for these reasons:

- As someone who has lived abroad and would like to do so again, I would be concerned at their proposals regarding immigration.

- I also have a foreign partner, and UK-born son who could take up foreign citizenship; I would be concerned about UKIP's immigration policies causing us direct difficulties.

- Additionally, I have many foreign colleagues (without them the company I work for would not be as successful) and friends. Some of them would likely be affected if UKIP came to power.

- I would feel hypocritical (to say the least) voting for UKIP given how much I, my family, my friends and my workplace have benefited from the current EU freedom of movement and specifically immigration into the UK.

- I dislike their meaningless "Traditional Values being undermined" and "We're a patriotic party" nonsense.


I don't know enough about the rest of their policies to have an opinion, but the above is enough to ensure I will not vote for them.

BigMacDaddy

963 posts

180 months

Friday 5th October 2012
quotequote all
I'll be voting UKIP because:

A) I'm totally fed up of both of the major parties. As someone on this very forum once said, the difference between Conservative and Labour is the difference between hitting a brick wall at 130mph or 125 mph - it still ends up in a horrendous wreck either way (I have voted Conservative at the last three GEs, but the current shower have totally alienated me).

B) UKIP policies are the most closely aligned to my own opinions. I don't agree with all of it by any means, but a lot of it rings true.

I no longer care about the tactical voting argument - if my voting UKIP lets Labour back in so be it, it's not like the Tories/Lib Dims have made a better go of it so far.....

The Black Flash

13,735 posts

197 months

Friday 5th October 2012
quotequote all
eharding said:
thinfourth2 said:
Well if you want to belive in man made up global warming and go out of your way to insult anyone who might even say anything silight negative about our current immigrant policy might i suggest you pcensoreds off to the greenpeace forum
Hang on, not 10 minutes ago you where whining on about personal insults, and now you're inviting folk to "pcensoreds off"?

Nice. rolleyes
In fairness, he gave our bready friend several chances to say something which wasn't an insult, and all were ignored. Exasperation, I think it's called.

eharding

13,602 posts

283 months

Friday 5th October 2012
quotequote all
The Black Flash said:
eharding said:
thinfourth2 said:
Well if you want to belive in man made up global warming and go out of your way to insult anyone who might even say anything silight negative about our current immigrant policy might i suggest you pcensoreds off to the greenpeace forum
Hang on, not 10 minutes ago you where whining on about personal insults, and now you're inviting folk to "pcensoreds off"?

Nice. rolleyes
In fairness, he gave our bready friend several chances to say something which wasn't an insult, and all were ignored. Exasperation, I think it's called.
Insults? From BV? Where?