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Phil1

502 posts

168 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Where does it say public sector workers are included in the "takers" figures? I can only see references to people consuming more cost in services than they pay in tax. Would love to see the real figures...

London424

5,529 posts

61 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Tartan Pixie said:
article said:
Scotland contributed 9.6 per cent of Britain’s tax take and accounted for 9.3 per cent of public spending.
Spending less than they're taxing eh? Sounds like Britain would be better off if it was run from Holyrood. wobble
I'm pretty sure those numbers are completely made up.

Can anyone find the report that outlines what those two numbers refer to? If memory serves me, I think the 9.3% of public spending excludes capital expenditure...so a worthless number.

On the tax take side of things it's also a strange number, as the ONS can't and don't calculate the tax at an individual level. I have no idea how the guess that figure.

Eric Mc

77,162 posts

151 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
hornetrider said:
Are you shooting the messenger Eric? I'm merely reporting the article.
Did you agree with the article.

Your comment in the original post seemed to indicate an opinion on its contents.

rpguk

3,908 posts

170 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
When things like free prescriptions, free university fees and all the other things that seem to be free for the Scots I can well imagine this to be true.

I've often wondered how these are funded and where the downside to such policies are?

Is it some kind of deal to cover North Sea gas?

hornetrider

Original Poster:

49,029 posts

91 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Eric Mc said:
Did you agree with the article.

Your comment in the original post seemed to indicate an opinion on its contents.
Did it? Which bit.



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jogon

1,531 posts

44 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Mail today claims 53% of households in the uk receive more than they contribute to the state.

On phone so no link, sorry.


Tartan Pixie

735 posts

33 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
London424 said:
I'm pretty sure those numbers are completely made up.
Indeed, hence the wobbly face. There's also a lot of stuff like defense spending and oil revenue that get calculated separately. There is one thing certain about the tory conference though, any statistics regarding Scotland will have been massaged to within an inch of their life.

As someone who's undecided which way to vote on independence I've tried to look in to this and come to the conclusion that there's more bull manure surrounding this issue than the whole of old MacDonald's farm.

Best I could work out (using 2010 spending levels) is that if Scotland gets its full geographical share of oil reserves then it should be able to handle its per capita share of the national debt. How close we get to that situation will depend on negotiations.

Nicholas Blair

4,017 posts

170 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Well I must be in the 10% then frown

AJS-

11,803 posts

122 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
What's more shocking to me is the line that

"Scotland contributes 9.3% to the UK budget and receives 9.6% of public spending"

Roughly in line with it's ~6 million people in the UK with ~60 million total.

Sure Scotland is a bit higher than the average but I'll bet that is broadly mirrored across the UK and in total no more than 15-20% of households are net contributors.

OlberJ

13,974 posts

119 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
AJS- said:
What's more shocking to me is the line that

"Scotland contributes 9.3% to the UK budget and receives 9.6% of public spending"
Very shocking seeing as it's the other way round.

AJS-

11,803 posts

122 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Indeed. Was on my phone and couldn't quote. The point is that it's not really out of line with Scotland's population as a proportion of the UK.

Murph7355

10,510 posts

142 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
jogon said:
Mail today claims 53% of households in the uk receive more than they contribute to the state.

On phone so no link, sorry.
Did it note that they were all immigrant single parent lesbians too? smile

jshell

5,990 posts

91 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
The Don of Croy said:
I'm always encouraged when I hear a faithful union spokesperson say that state employees pay taxes too, so the more we have employed the better off the state will be...
Is it better to have them on the dole contributing absolutely nothing to society and the tax take? Default on mortgages, loans, credit cards and have their cars/houses re-possessed just so we can add them to the dole burden and dwindling housing market?

AJS-

11,803 posts

122 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
jshell said:
The Don of Croy said:
I'm always encouraged when I hear a faithful union spokesperson say that state employees pay taxes too, so the more we have employed the better off the state will be...
Is it better to have them on the dole contributing absolutely nothing to society and the tax take? Default on mortgages, loans, credit cards and have their cars/houses re-possessed just so we can add them to the dole burden and dwindling housing market?
Actually yes. £50 a week unemployment benefit and a council flat, along with the right encouragement to get a job* is a lot cheaper than a career in the Ministry of Paperclips complete with gold plated pension and the manifold negative effects of an unproductive capable individual.

Eric Mc

77,162 posts

151 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
So you at least are prepared to suggest that public sector workers are taking only and give nothing to society.

AJS-

11,803 posts

122 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
I don't doubt that many mean well and are good at what they do. There probably are examples of a tangible contribution too, but they are still expensive.

The Don of Croy

2,267 posts

45 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Eric Mc said:
So you at least are prepared to suggest that public sector workers are taking only and give nothing to society.
Me? No. Not all 13 million of them.

heebeegeetee

21,642 posts

134 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
It's a shame Scotland hasn't got any natural resources, like, I dunno, oil or something. They'd be alright then, they could sell that to the world.

markcoznottz

2,622 posts

110 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
jshell said:
Is it better to have them on the dole contributing absolutely nothing to society and the tax take? Default on mortgages, loans, credit cards and have their cars/houses re-possessed just so we can add them to the dole burden and dwindling housing market?
The alternative is a gilt strike or like Greece or Spain we simply will not be able to pay interest on our deficit. Over time state spending must be reduced, by a lot, this will involve a lot of state workers losing thier jobs, unfortunately there is no choice. Maybe we should go ask a certain GBrown why he added so many new posts to the public payroll.

jshell

5,990 posts

91 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
markcoznottz said:
jshell said:
Is it better to have them on the dole contributing absolutely nothing to society and the tax take? Default on mortgages, loans, credit cards and have their cars/houses re-possessed just so we can add them to the dole burden and dwindling housing market?
The alternative is a gilt strike or like Greece or Spain we simply will not be able to pay interest on our deficit. Over time state spending must be reduced, by a lot, this will involve a lot of state workers losing thier jobs, unfortunately there is no choice. Maybe we should go ask a certain GBrown why he added so many new posts to the public payroll.
That's lacking joined up thinking though. Ex-public sector worked on dole gets a council house and just enough to live on. There are no further jobs so he's fecked, he's not going to be striving for his kids to do well and as they say 'as money goes out the door, love goes out the window'. Perhaps divorce, house needed for spouse now. These people will be bored and end up totally dead end. We'll pay for them, their kids who will be inlikely to get jobs, we'll pay the repairs to their council houses. The list goes on, and on, and on...

Worker pays tax, but in addition has some self respect, better health, will support the economy by paying rental or mortgage, with house repairs, own transport, etc, etc. Probably won't save everything they have so money is spent in local economy supporting local business, may run a car and pay road tax, fuel tax, support local garage, fuel supplier etc,etc. The money goes around.



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