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Nine in Ten Scots households take more than they give

Nine in Ten Scots households take more than they give

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London424

8,000 posts

77 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Tartan Pixie said:
article said:
Scotland contributed 9.6 per cent of Britain’s tax take and accounted for 9.3 per cent of public spending.
Spending less than they're taxing eh? Sounds like Britain would be better off if it was run from Holyrood. wobble
I'm pretty sure those numbers are completely made up.

Can anyone find the report that outlines what those two numbers refer to? If memory serves me, I think the 9.3% of public spending excludes capital expenditure...so a worthless number.

On the tax take side of things it's also a strange number, as the ONS can't and don't calculate the tax at an individual level. I have no idea how the guess that figure.

Eric Mc

84,665 posts

167 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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hornetrider said:
Are you shooting the messenger Eric? I'm merely reporting the article.
Did you agree with the article.

Your comment in the original post seemed to indicate an opinion on its contents.

rpguk

4,122 posts

186 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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When things like free prescriptions, free university fees and all the other things that seem to be free for the Scots I can well imagine this to be true.

I've often wondered how these are funded and where the downside to such policies are?

Is it some kind of deal to cover North Sea gas?

hornetrider

Original Poster:

56,792 posts

107 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Did you agree with the article.

Your comment in the original post seemed to indicate an opinion on its contents.
Did it? Which bit.



jogon

2,971 posts

60 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Mail today claims 53% of households in the uk receive more than they contribute to the state.

On phone so no link, sorry.


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Tartan Pixie

735 posts

49 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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London424 said:
I'm pretty sure those numbers are completely made up.
Indeed, hence the wobbly face. There's also a lot of stuff like defense spending and oil revenue that get calculated separately. There is one thing certain about the tory conference though, any statistics regarding Scotland will have been massaged to within an inch of their life.

As someone who's undecided which way to vote on independence I've tried to look in to this and come to the conclusion that there's more bull manure surrounding this issue than the whole of old MacDonald's farm.

Best I could work out (using 2010 spending levels) is that if Scotland gets its full geographical share of oil reserves then it should be able to handle its per capita share of the national debt. How close we get to that situation will depend on negotiations.

Nicholas Blair

4,030 posts

186 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Well I must be in the 10% then frown

AJS-

14,377 posts

138 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
What's more shocking to me is the line that

"Scotland contributes 9.3% to the UK budget and receives 9.6% of public spending"

Roughly in line with it's ~6 million people in the UK with ~60 million total.

Sure Scotland is a bit higher than the average but I'll bet that is broadly mirrored across the UK and in total no more than 15-20% of households are net contributors.

OlberJ

14,078 posts

135 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
AJS- said:
What's more shocking to me is the line that

"Scotland contributes 9.3% to the UK budget and receives 9.6% of public spending"
Very shocking seeing as it's the other way round.

AJS-

14,377 posts

138 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Indeed. Was on my phone and couldn't quote. The point is that it's not really out of line with Scotland's population as a proportion of the UK.

Murph7355

11,802 posts

158 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
jogon said:
Mail today claims 53% of households in the uk receive more than they contribute to the state.

On phone so no link, sorry.
Did it note that they were all immigrant single parent lesbians too? smile

jshell

6,897 posts

107 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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The Don of Croy said:
I'm always encouraged when I hear a faithful union spokesperson say that state employees pay taxes too, so the more we have employed the better off the state will be...
Is it better to have them on the dole contributing absolutely nothing to society and the tax take? Default on mortgages, loans, credit cards and have their cars/houses re-possessed just so we can add them to the dole burden and dwindling housing market?

AJS-

14,377 posts

138 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
jshell said:
The Don of Croy said:
I'm always encouraged when I hear a faithful union spokesperson say that state employees pay taxes too, so the more we have employed the better off the state will be...
Is it better to have them on the dole contributing absolutely nothing to society and the tax take? Default on mortgages, loans, credit cards and have their cars/houses re-possessed just so we can add them to the dole burden and dwindling housing market?
Actually yes. £50 a week unemployment benefit and a council flat, along with the right encouragement to get a job* is a lot cheaper than a career in the Ministry of Paperclips complete with gold plated pension and the manifold negative effects of an unproductive capable individual.

Eric Mc

84,665 posts

167 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
So you at least are prepared to suggest that public sector workers are taking only and give nothing to society.

AJS-

14,377 posts

138 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
I don't doubt that many mean well and are good at what they do. There probably are examples of a tangible contribution too, but they are still expensive.

The Don of Croy

3,336 posts

61 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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Eric Mc said:
So you at least are prepared to suggest that public sector workers are taking only and give nothing to society.
Me? No. Not all 13 million of them.

heebeegeetee

23,512 posts

150 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
It's a shame Scotland hasn't got any natural resources, like, I dunno, oil or something. They'd be alright then, they could sell that to the world.

markcoznottz

3,128 posts

126 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
jshell said:
Is it better to have them on the dole contributing absolutely nothing to society and the tax take? Default on mortgages, loans, credit cards and have their cars/houses re-possessed just so we can add them to the dole burden and dwindling housing market?
The alternative is a gilt strike or like Greece or Spain we simply will not be able to pay interest on our deficit. Over time state spending must be reduced, by a lot, this will involve a lot of state workers losing thier jobs, unfortunately there is no choice. Maybe we should go ask a certain GBrown why he added so many new posts to the public payroll.

jshell

6,897 posts

107 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
markcoznottz said:
jshell said:
Is it better to have them on the dole contributing absolutely nothing to society and the tax take? Default on mortgages, loans, credit cards and have their cars/houses re-possessed just so we can add them to the dole burden and dwindling housing market?
The alternative is a gilt strike or like Greece or Spain we simply will not be able to pay interest on our deficit. Over time state spending must be reduced, by a lot, this will involve a lot of state workers losing thier jobs, unfortunately there is no choice. Maybe we should go ask a certain GBrown why he added so many new posts to the public payroll.
That's lacking joined up thinking though. Ex-public sector worked on dole gets a council house and just enough to live on. There are no further jobs so he's fecked, he's not going to be striving for his kids to do well and as they say 'as money goes out the door, love goes out the window'. Perhaps divorce, house needed for spouse now. These people will be bored and end up totally dead end. We'll pay for them, their kids who will be inlikely to get jobs, we'll pay the repairs to their council houses. The list goes on, and on, and on...

Worker pays tax, but in addition has some self respect, better health, will support the economy by paying rental or mortgage, with house repairs, own transport, etc, etc. Probably won't save everything they have so money is spent in local economy supporting local business, may run a car and pay road tax, fuel tax, support local garage, fuel supplier etc,etc. The money goes around.



glazbagun

5,633 posts

99 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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neil_w said:
Sounds bad but what are the figures for other parts of Britain?

Further down the article says:
"According to the most recent figures, Scotland contributed 9.6 per cent of Britain’s tax take and accounted for 9.3 per cent of public spending."

So Scotland contributes more in tax than it receives in spending (proportionally).
That would indicate a demographic where lots of high earners make enough and pay enough in tax that they can eclipse the net loss of low and middle earners... Which is sort of the way it should be, isnt it? I mean, if the system had those on low wages contribiting more than they consumed in public services, that would surely be a symptom of something being really messed up.

Edited by glazbagun on Monday 8th October 18:38