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Symbolica

9,936 posts

98 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
turbobloke said:
At a guess the bar monkeys doing this have forgetten about the insulating properties of nitrogen gas and never heard of latent heat of vapourisation, not to mention the expansion by volume that occurs on vapourisation.
To be fair, if they knew about all that then they probably wouldn't be working in a bar.

turbobloke

61,165 posts

143 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
mrmr96 said:
turbobloke said:
Faced at her age with an offer of a drink with liquid nitrogen freshly poured into it, I might have died but only from laughing at the fkwit expecting me to drink from it.
Not everyone knows the dangerous of a substance like this - so if the barman/her mates told her it was safe then her error was only in being too trusting.
That was my point, everyone should know.

If anybody said it was safe, they need locking up. Ignorance is no defence.

Oakey

16,158 posts

99 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Well I for one know that when I want to piss around with dangerous chemicals a bar is exactly the sort of place to do it. I'm sure the staff are fully trained in handling liquid nitorgen, you couldn't be in safer hands.

TonyHetherington

31,791 posts

133 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
turbobloke said:
When somebody's brain is missing something or in neutral or judgement is impaired by alcohol, they do stupid things including potentially fatal things and this is one of them. Reading the article I had some sympathy but the overriding feeling had more to do with Darwin. Faced at her age with an offer of a drink with liquid nitrogen freshly poured into it, I might have died but only from laughing at the fkwit expecting me to drink from it. Maybe our edookashun differs a lot. At a guess the bar monkeys doing this have forgetten about the insulating properties of nitrogen gas and never heard of latent heat of vapourisation, not to mention the expansion by volume that occurs on vapourisation. I reckon the whole lot are still mysteries, given that knowing anything is uncool, so the risk remains and there will probably be a repeat incident somewhere before long.
I ate at the Fat Duck last year (Heston's restaurant). The waitress had full on protection, and open a big shiny cylinder, very carefully, and poured it into a bowl. She then squirted foam onto a spoon, dunked it in the bowl and immediately handed it to me to take off the spoon (with my hands) and eat straight away.

Now, I was hesitant, but "knew" they wouldn't do anything to kill me, and had seen many have it before.

My point is that people have used nitrogen in cooking and so it's not a million miles away. Yes she drank it, and a lot of it though.

turbobloke

61,165 posts

143 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Symbolica said:
turbobloke said:
At a guess the bar monkeys doing this have forgetten about the insulating properties of nitrogen gas and never heard of latent heat of vapourisation, not to mention the expansion by volume that occurs on vapourisation.
To be fair, if they knew about all that then they probably wouldn't be working in a bar.
No excuse though. If a person is messing with stuff they don't understand, they shouldn't be - and they certainly shouldn't be involving others in their ignorance.

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mrmr96

13,546 posts

87 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
turbobloke said:
mrmr96 said:
turbobloke said:
Faced at her age with an offer of a drink with liquid nitrogen freshly poured into it, I might have died but only from laughing at the fkwit expecting me to drink from it.
Not everyone knows the dangerous of a substance like this - so if the barman/her mates told her it was safe then her error was only in being too trusting.
That was my point, everyone should know.

If anybody said it was safe, they need locking up. Ignorance is no defence.
Oh without doubt it's the bar at fault here. As a young person having a night out you don't expect the barman to be giving you a glass of fatality, do you? Do you still think the girl was to blame somehow? For her naivety of dangerous chemicals? Come on, what right thinking person would expect to find such dangerous stuff in a bar. Goes beyond what was reasonable for her to understand IMO.

techguyone

108 posts

25 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
I'm surprised nobody has noticed that something isn't right.

see for the LN to get INTO her stomach, it needs to pass through the lips, mouth, and down the tube to her stomach.

Now. If it froze her stomach, why no mention of anything between lips and stomach.

I reckon it's more likely that the stomach rupture was completely unrelated...

Standard alcoholic abuse maybe, or just because.

turbobloke

61,165 posts

143 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
TonyHetherington said:
turbobloke said:
When somebody's brain is missing something or in neutral or judgement is impaired by alcohol, they do stupid things including potentially fatal things and this is one of them. Reading the article I had some sympathy but the overriding feeling had more to do with Darwin. Faced at her age with an offer of a drink with liquid nitrogen freshly poured into it, I might have died but only from laughing at the fkwit expecting me to drink from it. Maybe our edookashun differs a lot. At a guess the bar monkeys doing this have forgetten about the insulating properties of nitrogen gas and never heard of latent heat of vapourisation, not to mention the expansion by volume that occurs on vapourisation. I reckon the whole lot are still mysteries, given that knowing anything is uncool, so the risk remains and there will probably be a repeat incident somewhere before long.
I ate at the Fat Duck last year (Heston's restaurant). The waitress had full on protection, and open a big shiny cylinder, very carefully, and poured it into a bowl. She then squirted foam onto a spoon, dunked it in the bowl and immediately handed it to me to take off the spoon (with my hands) and eat straight away.
You put frozen foam in your mouth at your own risk, not liquid nitrogen.

turbobloke

61,165 posts

143 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
techguyone said:
I'm surprised nobody has noticed that something isn't right.

see for the LN to get INTO her stomach, it needs to pass through the lips, mouth, and down the tube to her stomach.

Now. If it froze her stomach, why no mention of anything between lips and stomach.

I reckon it's more likely that the stomach rupture was completely unrelated...

Standard alcoholic abuse maybe, or just because.
On contact with something warm, a blob of liquid nitrogen will acquire a surface layer of nitrogen gas around it or at least near the surface in contact with something warmer, and although the gas is still cold, the key point is that this gas layer will assist passage along somebody's tubes to any nearby resting place which is sealed off in some way e.g. a stomach.

As such, if a slug of liquid nitrogen remained in the drink, most of it will have found its way into her stomach, at which point she was about to be potentially fatally injured.

otolith

25,023 posts

87 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
mrmr96 said:
SystemParanoia said:
"liquid nitrogen is a toxic chemicalsubstance. It destroys human tissue."

FPMSL! eeerm no its not.. we breath it all day every day lmao!
Nitrogen is fine. Liquid Nitrogen is not - it WILL destroy human tissue. Not because it's Nitrogen, but because it's cold. Slightly sloppy journalism though, yes.
Compare to "boiling water is a toxic chemical. It destroys human tissue". Neither is toxic, both are in a physical state which makes them dangerous.

I expect the Fat Duck also uses gas flames to process food - doesn't make it any less dim to try to drink a cocktail which was recently on fire and then think someone else is to blame when you burn your mouth on the rim of the glass.

y2blade

54,312 posts

98 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
UF said:
linky

"A teenager has had emergency surgery to remove her stomach after drinking a cocktail containing liquid nitrogen

The 18-year-old is reported to have become breathless and developed severe stomach pain before being taken to Royal Lancaster Infirmary.

Officers say she would have died if doctors had not performed the operation."
yikes

TonyHetherington

31,791 posts

133 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
turbobloke said:
You put frozen foam in your mouth at your own risk, not liquid nitrogen.
Oh I realise - it was frozen foam rather than nitrogen (I assume that long burnt away the moment it was in atmostphere), but even so - I blindly followed someone telling me to put it in my mouth (please don't misquote this).

ShampooEfficient

3,212 posts

94 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
I may be misremembering, but I'm sure I've made icecream with liquid nitrogen. At school, under the supervision of a Bill Oddie lookalike.

turbobloke

61,165 posts

143 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Breathless - either the pressure from production of gas in her abdomen will have prevented inhalation due to her diaphragm being forced up and held in the exhale position, or a lung collapsed very quickly due to the pressure change, or both lungs, or all three things. Large volumes of gas produced in a short space of time will have very quickly perforated bits of her stomach that were still squishy. Medics ought to be able to advise on the detail here.

Somebody asked if I blame her - people are free to inflict harm on themselves in full knowledge of the facts, or in complete ignorance, and in both situations they are also free to pay the price. When it's down to ignorance then my view is exactly as I posted originally, some sympathy but also respect for the tireless efforts of Darwin.

turbobloke

61,165 posts

143 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
TonyHetherington said:
turbobloke said:
You put frozen foam in your mouth at your own risk, not liquid nitrogen.
Oh I realise - it was frozen foam rather than nitrogen (I assume that long burnt away the moment it was in atmostphere), but even so - I blindly followed someone telling me to put it in my mouth (please don't misquote this).
hehe

Humour in adversity etc.

SystemParanoia

9,694 posts

81 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
TonyHetherington said:
One time at band camp... - I blindly followed someone telling me to put it in my mouth (please don't misquote this).
hehe

turbobloke

61,165 posts

143 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
SystemParanoia said:
TonyHetherington said:
One time at band camp... - I blindly followed someone telling me to put it in my mouth (please don't misquote this).
hehe
smile

Everything is relative wobble

ShampooEfficient said:
I may be misremembering, but I'm sure I've made icecream with liquid nitrogen. At school, under the supervision of a Bill Oddie lookalike.
Possibly so, my guess is that you ate the ice cream but did not drink the liquid nitrogen?

ad551

1,501 posts

96 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
I think it's very unfair to blame her for this. If you were at a bar on your 18th birthday, having a fun night out, and ordered a drink - no matter how gimmicky it was - you'd expect it to be safe. You wouldn't expect to be waking up in a hospital bed a few hours later without a stomach and having to live with the consequences for the rest of your life.

ShampooEfficient

3,212 posts

94 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
turbobloke said:
ShampooEfficient said:
I may be misremembering, but I'm sure I've made icecream with liquid nitrogen. At school, under the supervision of a Bill Oddie lookalike.
Possibly so, my guess is that you ate the ice cream but did not drink the liquid nitrogen?
I honestly can't remember if it was mixed in or just used to perhaps cool a bowl or something. We're going back 15 years, the thing I most remember is making it blue.

jshell

5,819 posts

88 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
turbobloke said:
techguyone said:
I'm surprised nobody has noticed that something isn't right.

see for the LN to get INTO her stomach, it needs to pass through the lips, mouth, and down the tube to her stomach.

Now. If it froze her stomach, why no mention of anything between lips and stomach.

I reckon it's more likely that the stomach rupture was completely unrelated...

Standard alcoholic abuse maybe, or just because.
On contact with something warm, a blob of liquid nitrogen will acquire a surface layer of nitrogen gas around it or at least near the surface in contact with something warmer, and although the gas is still cold, the key point is that this gas layer will assist passage along somebody's tubes to any nearby resting place which is sealed off in some way e.g. a stomach.

As such, if a slug of liquid nitrogen remained in the drink, most of it will have found its way into her stomach, at which point she was about to be potentially fatally injured.
Exactly. I've poured small amounts onto my hand and it just runs off on a bed of gaseous N2. I couldn't even feel it touch me. I imagine it did something similar on it's way down into her stomach, except there was no escape from the stomach so froze part of the lining.

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