Middle class parents drinking heavily - new report published
Discussion
Derek Smith said:
he said that he had not done a trachy on any person who neither drank nor smoked in n years of doing such ops three days a week. The key was alcohol.
....but they never give any helpful information.For instance, I can well believe that malt whisky and a fat cigar will give your innards a hard time.
But is there any evidence that a pint of Heineken delivers anywhere near the same risk?
And how come Johnny Frenchman doesn't have shocking statistics with his regular wine habit?
Regrettably the medical experts had it easy with smoking where the statistics clearly show "any smoking is bad smoking". I've never seen anything comparable for alcohol, especially the beer and wine category.
I remember school friends asking if my parents were alcoholics after witnessing all the bottles of whiskey and vodka in the house. They weren't and never have been, they simply enjoy a drink and today usually polish off a bottle of wine between them every evening and have done for years.
Being in their 70's now they are also seeing more of their friends dying and the one observation they have made is that it seems to be all the teatotallers going first. All their pisshead mates are still going strong.
Being in their 70's now they are also seeing more of their friends dying and the one observation they have made is that it seems to be all the teatotallers going first. All their pisshead mates are still going strong.
Ozzie Osmond said:
mattnunn said:
I can see how it very quickly becomes a 7 day a week habit of drinking half a bottle a night, it's much harder not to do it.
Bottle = 9 unitsHalf bottle = 4.5 units
4.5 x 7 = 31.5 units a week, evenly spread and quite likely with food. Barely over the 28.
It's not the amount that bothers me as much as just the general feeling that it's just not a good habit to get into, I don't like the thought of being "dependant".
Plus it's £20 a week that can go in the M3 savings account.
Biggest problem in this Country is that everything appears to involve drinking from watching a footie match to going to a Christening. You are treated as a bit of a pariah if you refuse to drink at a celebration. I know I've tried 
I have stopped drinking for up to a couple of weeks but that is if I stay at home. Once I go out I find it next to impossible. In fact I'll say that I'd rather stay in than go out to a pub, cub, dinner party etc and not drink. Staying sober whilst everyone around you is getting p155ed makes a pretty miserable and boring evening and then you end up giving everyone lifts home
I have stopped drinking for up to a couple of weeks but that is if I stay at home. Once I go out I find it next to impossible. In fact I'll say that I'd rather stay in than go out to a pub, cub, dinner party etc and not drink. Staying sober whilst everyone around you is getting p155ed makes a pretty miserable and boring evening and then you end up giving everyone lifts home
Ozzie Osmond said:
....but they never give any helpful information.
For instance, I can well believe that malt whisky and a fat cigar will give your innards a hard time.
But is there any evidence that a pint of Heineken delivers anywhere near the same risk?
And how come Johnny Frenchman doesn't have shocking statistics with his regular wine habit?
Regrettably the medical experts had it easy with smoking where the statistics clearly show "any smoking is bad smoking". I've never seen anything comparable for alcohol, especially the beer and wine category.
As i said, I did, and occasionally still do, a fair bit of research on the subject. Certainly there has been plenty of research on the effects of alcohol on the foetus, especially during the early stages.For instance, I can well believe that malt whisky and a fat cigar will give your innards a hard time.
But is there any evidence that a pint of Heineken delivers anywhere near the same risk?
And how come Johnny Frenchman doesn't have shocking statistics with his regular wine habit?
Regrettably the medical experts had it easy with smoking where the statistics clearly show "any smoking is bad smoking". I've never seen anything comparable for alcohol, especially the beer and wine category.
Alcohol and smoking at the same time is extremely dangerous. There's a lot of research in that.
I think also that the French do have a major problem with alcohol-related illnesses. The difficulty in defining it is that there is little state sponsored research in the matter. However, one significant difference is that the French do not binge-drink to anything like the extent of the British.
From the research I've read it is not just the alchol that causes the problem - although it does for me. What causes lots of probs is the stuff taken with the alchol. Red wine causes more problems for drinkers than white even if the alcohol content is identical. Vodka is, given identical manufaturing processes, less dangerous than whisky although shorts are less dangerous for the quantity of alcohol, the reason was open to considerable dispute at the time that I read it.
The major problem with alcohol is the justification it gets as the majority of people drink. There's those who suggest that alcohol has no effect and in any case people drive better after a drink or two.
I'm not trying to convert anyone - apart from me - but the evidence is there if you look for it. People who have seen nothing bad about alchol are those who haven't looked for it.
Derek Smith said:
Alcohol is very dangerous stuff. If you drink regularly, i.e. daily, then you are putting yourself at considerable risk. O course, spoken by someone who can't drink, but it is true.
We remain optimistic, but the available evidence seems strongly to suggest that for human beings, life is a 100% terminal condition.otolith said:
Derek Smith said:
Alcohol is very dangerous stuff. If you drink regularly, i.e. daily, then you are putting yourself at considerable risk. O course, spoken by someone who can't drink, but it is true.
We remain optimistic, but the available evidence seems strongly to suggest that for human beings, life is a 100% terminal condition.People drinking regularly becuase life is hard shocker.
I can't drink due for medical reasons and havent been for the last six years so I fully understand what otheres are saying on here about being treated like an pariah at the pub/parties/any social event. Do I miss it? yes, i'd like to be able to have a decent glass of wine wiht my meal or a nice pint on a hot day. Far too much in out society revolves around drinking all the bloody time though. I'm single at the moment, and i must admit, I'm finding that women do seem to view me with suspicion/lose interest when I inevitably have to tell them I can't drink, it's pretty strange to be honest, and pretty irritating.
However, people drink to escape, unreality is better than reality. Perhaps instead of pointing the finger and saying ' you evil b
ds, you drink far too much on a regular basis, do as we tell you' the people conduction these surveys could put their time to much better use discovering what is causing them to drink and how best to help them help themselves. That might be too obvious though, and might not pave the way for more taxation.
I can't drink due for medical reasons and havent been for the last six years so I fully understand what otheres are saying on here about being treated like an pariah at the pub/parties/any social event. Do I miss it? yes, i'd like to be able to have a decent glass of wine wiht my meal or a nice pint on a hot day. Far too much in out society revolves around drinking all the bloody time though. I'm single at the moment, and i must admit, I'm finding that women do seem to view me with suspicion/lose interest when I inevitably have to tell them I can't drink, it's pretty strange to be honest, and pretty irritating.
However, people drink to escape, unreality is better than reality. Perhaps instead of pointing the finger and saying ' you evil b
ds, you drink far too much on a regular basis, do as we tell you' the people conduction these surveys could put their time to much better use discovering what is causing them to drink and how best to help them help themselves. That might be too obvious though, and might not pave the way for more taxation.
neilr said:
People drinking regularly becuase life is hard shocker.
I can't drink due for medical reasons and havent been for the last six years so I fully understand what otheres are saying on here about being treated like an pariah at the pub/parties/any social event. Do I miss it? yes, i'd like to be able to have a decent glass of wine wiht my meal or a nice pint on a hot day. Far too much in out society revolves around drinking all the bloody time though. I'm single at the moment, and i must admit, I'm finding that women do seem to view me with suspicion/lose interest when I inevitably have to tell them I can't drink, it's pretty strange to be honest, and pretty irritating.
However, people drink to escape, unreality is better than reality. Perhaps instead of pointing the finger and saying ' you evil bds, you drink far too much on a regular basis, do as we tell you' the people conduction these surveys could put their time to much better use discovering what is causing them to drink and how best to help them help themselves. That might be too obvious though, and might not pave the way for more taxation.
Good post. Agree with both parts.I can't drink due for medical reasons and havent been for the last six years so I fully understand what otheres are saying on here about being treated like an pariah at the pub/parties/any social event. Do I miss it? yes, i'd like to be able to have a decent glass of wine wiht my meal or a nice pint on a hot day. Far too much in out society revolves around drinking all the bloody time though. I'm single at the moment, and i must admit, I'm finding that women do seem to view me with suspicion/lose interest when I inevitably have to tell them I can't drink, it's pretty strange to be honest, and pretty irritating.
However, people drink to escape, unreality is better than reality. Perhaps instead of pointing the finger and saying ' you evil b
ds, you drink far too much on a regular basis, do as we tell you' the people conduction these surveys could put their time to much better use discovering what is causing them to drink and how best to help them help themselves. That might be too obvious though, and might not pave the way for more taxation.I sometimes stop drinking for a few months at a time for no other reason than I just go through a keep fit phase and hit the gym, stop drinking and watch what I eat... and whenever I'm in a 'not drinking' phase I get quite a bit of hassle. People do indeed treat you with suspicion as to why exactly you don't drink, often assuming you are/were a recovering alcoholic, but once they find out you are choosing not to drink it all starts again: "just have one, don't be rude, have a drink with us... I'm sure you can have one"
How many times you you have to tell people "I'm not drinking"??
As for your second point, spot on. Why people drink is the more important question.
mattnunn said:
otolith said:
Derek Smith said:
Alcohol is very dangerous stuff. If you drink regularly, i.e. daily, then you are putting yourself at considerable risk. O course, spoken by someone who can't drink, but it is true.
We remain optimistic, but the available evidence seems strongly to suggest that for human beings, life is a 100% terminal condition.And moderate drinking is not a high risk activity.
Steameh said:
I can't help but feel if I have kids, I would always want to be sober, just in case something happens.
Never let your gaurd down, they're tricky little fkers. Sleep with one eye open and all that.My FIL fell alseep 'baby sitting' my nephews. When BIL and his wife got home, the two boys had taken themeselves to bed, having tied their grandad's shoelaces together and drawn on his face in felt tip pen.
At least they didn't style what's left of his hair with marmite.
neilr said:
People drinking regularly becuase life is hard shocker.
I can't drink due for medical reasons and havent been for the last six years so I fully understand what otheres are saying on here about being treated like an pariah at the pub/parties/any social event. Do I miss it? yes, i'd like to be able to have a decent glass of wine wiht my meal or a nice pint on a hot day. Far too much in out society revolves around drinking all the bloody time though. I'm single at the moment, and i must admit, I'm finding that women do seem to view me with suspicion/lose interest when I inevitably have to tell them I can't drink, it's pretty strange to be honest, and pretty irritating.
However, people drink to escape, unreality is better than reality. Perhaps instead of pointing the finger and saying ' you evil bds, you drink far too much on a regular basis, do as we tell you' the people conduction these surveys could put their time to much better use discovering what is causing them to drink and how best to help them help themselves. That might be too obvious though, and might not pave the way for more taxation.
One thing that happened was that I got invited to a lot more parties. I drove one bloke home in his own car from a works Christmas do and en route he vomited into the glove locker. I just assumed he'd remember doing so but evidently not. He said later that his wife discovered that there was a heater pipe behind the glove locker. Sometimes being tea-total is not quite so bad.I can't drink due for medical reasons and havent been for the last six years so I fully understand what otheres are saying on here about being treated like an pariah at the pub/parties/any social event. Do I miss it? yes, i'd like to be able to have a decent glass of wine wiht my meal or a nice pint on a hot day. Far too much in out society revolves around drinking all the bloody time though. I'm single at the moment, and i must admit, I'm finding that women do seem to view me with suspicion/lose interest when I inevitably have to tell them I can't drink, it's pretty strange to be honest, and pretty irritating.
However, people drink to escape, unreality is better than reality. Perhaps instead of pointing the finger and saying ' you evil b
ds, you drink far too much on a regular basis, do as we tell you' the people conduction these surveys could put their time to much better use discovering what is causing them to drink and how best to help them help themselves. That might be too obvious though, and might not pave the way for more taxation.Parties went on for longer for me in the sense that I could remember what I did later. You'd be surprised how many people there are who only drink a glass or two.
A significant problem was that after such parties one got a feeling of superiority. Drunks arguing amongst themselves is probably the most pathetic of all scenarios.
I found it fairly easy to give up as it only took a month or so to feel 100% again. There were/are some foods I can't eat as well so once I found them out I felt good. Sounds stupid but I never realised that for most people, hangovers went on for just one day. Mine lasted four or five and I just assumed people didn't moan about them once the worst was over.
I was in Harrogate for a few weeks on a business course. In the class there were two others who didn't drink - religious and financial reasons - and one night we were out with the the rest when their behaviour got a bit boring. We went off to a hotel and we sat at a table with a load of models from a fashion show with two or three blokes. They didn't drink either. It was a thoroughly enjoyable evening. The belief that models are thick and insular did not apply in this case. They were intelligent and a bit of a laugh. There is no doubt that if there'd been a couple of drunks on the table the night would have been ruined.
It was great being surrounded by stunningly attractive women. The blokes were gay: what a waste of opportunity.
So there are positives, and not only the money, from being tea-total. I didn't realise that one of the reasons I used to drink at parties was that I was shy. I never really cracked that. I've got a feeling that it applies to a lot of people.
Derek Smith said:
One thing that happened was that I got invited to a lot more parties. I drove one bloke home in his own car from a works Christmas do and en route he vomited into the glove locker. I just assumed he'd remember doing so but evidently not. He said later that his wife discovered that there was a heater pipe behind the glove locker. Sometimes being tea-total is not quite so bad.
Parties went on for longer for me in the sense that I could remember what I did later. You'd be surprised how many people there are who only drink a glass or two.
A significant problem was that after such parties one got a feeling of superiority. Drunks arguing amongst themselves is probably the most pathetic of all scenarios.
I found it fairly easy to give up as it only took a month or so to feel 100% again. There were/are some foods I can't eat as well so once I found them out I felt good. Sounds stupid but I never realised that for most people, hangovers went on for just one day. Mine lasted four or five and I just assumed people didn't moan about them once the worst was over.
I was in Harrogate for a few weeks on a business course. In the class there were two others who didn't drink - religious and financial reasons - and one night we were out with the the rest when their behaviour got a bit boring. We went off to a hotel and we sat at a table with a load of models from a fashion show with two or three blokes. They didn't drink either. It was a thoroughly enjoyable evening. The belief that models are thick and insular did not apply in this case. They were intelligent and a bit of a laugh. There is no doubt that if there'd been a couple of drunks on the table the night would have been ruined.
It was great being surrounded by stunningly attractive women. The blokes were gay: what a waste of opportunity.
So there are positives, and not only the money, from being tea-total. I didn't realise that one of the reasons I used to drink at parties was that I was shy. I never really cracked that. I've got a feeling that it applies to a lot of people.
Good stories Derek. Although I drink, I have experienced similar, particularly when I am driving and Mrs P is drinking. I'm sure though, she's getting revenge for the 2 years or so when she had to remain drink free when pregnant and was breastfeeding and drive me everywhere! Parties went on for longer for me in the sense that I could remember what I did later. You'd be surprised how many people there are who only drink a glass or two.
A significant problem was that after such parties one got a feeling of superiority. Drunks arguing amongst themselves is probably the most pathetic of all scenarios.
I found it fairly easy to give up as it only took a month or so to feel 100% again. There were/are some foods I can't eat as well so once I found them out I felt good. Sounds stupid but I never realised that for most people, hangovers went on for just one day. Mine lasted four or five and I just assumed people didn't moan about them once the worst was over.
I was in Harrogate for a few weeks on a business course. In the class there were two others who didn't drink - religious and financial reasons - and one night we were out with the the rest when their behaviour got a bit boring. We went off to a hotel and we sat at a table with a load of models from a fashion show with two or three blokes. They didn't drink either. It was a thoroughly enjoyable evening. The belief that models are thick and insular did not apply in this case. They were intelligent and a bit of a laugh. There is no doubt that if there'd been a couple of drunks on the table the night would have been ruined.
It was great being surrounded by stunningly attractive women. The blokes were gay: what a waste of opportunity.
So there are positives, and not only the money, from being tea-total. I didn't realise that one of the reasons I used to drink at parties was that I was shy. I never really cracked that. I've got a feeling that it applies to a lot of people.
I have heard that vitamin B12 deficiency (or at least taking it with a hangover) helps reduce the symptoms of a hangover - do you know if this is true? I was told this by a doctor friend who liked to spin a few yarns about self medication, so I've never really been sure. (Interestingly he's the same guy who claims he drank more after learning about the impact of drinking during medical training as he found out the body was more resilient than he had previously thought!)
And just one more thing - I'm sure you drink a lot of it now, but I'm sure the "T" in "Teetotal" is spelled "Tee" not "Tea"
(Tee representing the letter T, like H in H Hour or D in D Day). I recently went to a wedding as a driver for my wife ( she was a bridesmaid), it was THE MOST BORING TIME YOU COULD HAVE without a drink or two.
Everyone else was staying in the hotel so was getting sloshed, the day seemed 3 times as long.
I have vowed to only attend weddings if I'm not driving.
Everyone else was staying in the hotel so was getting sloshed, the day seemed 3 times as long.
I have vowed to only attend weddings if I'm not driving.
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