Middle class parents drinking heavily - new report published
Discussion
rovermorris999 said:
All I want is for the government, the BBC and any other busybodies to f
k off and let me live my life as I want, with the proviso I do no harm to anyone else.
People who wish to protect you from yourself will simply find some circuitous manner in which your behaviour affects others, and then use it disingenuously to stop you.k off and let me live my life as I want, with the proviso I do no harm to anyone else.NinjaPower said:
Good post. Agree with both parts.
I sometimes stop drinking for a few months at a time for no other reason than I just go through a keep fit phase and hit the gym, stop drinking and watch what I eat... and whenever I'm in a 'not drinking' phase I get quite a bit of hassle. People do indeed treat you with suspicion as to why exactly you don't drink, often assuming you are/were a recovering alcoholic, but once they find out you are choosing not to drink it all starts again: "just have one, don't be rude, have a drink with us... I'm sure you can have one"
How many times you you have to tell people "I'm not drinking"??
As for your second point, spot on. Why people drink is the more important question.
When I was in my second year at university there was a period of three months or so where I couldn't drink for medical reasons and the hassle I got from all and sundry was something of an eye-opener in to other people's attitudes - It seemed to me that people felt like you were somehow judging them for their drinking.I sometimes stop drinking for a few months at a time for no other reason than I just go through a keep fit phase and hit the gym, stop drinking and watch what I eat... and whenever I'm in a 'not drinking' phase I get quite a bit of hassle. People do indeed treat you with suspicion as to why exactly you don't drink, often assuming you are/were a recovering alcoholic, but once they find out you are choosing not to drink it all starts again: "just have one, don't be rude, have a drink with us... I'm sure you can have one"
How many times you you have to tell people "I'm not drinking"??
As for your second point, spot on. Why people drink is the more important question.
prand said:
Good stories Derek. Although I drink, I have experienced similar, particularly when I am driving and Mrs P is drinking. I'm sure though, she's getting revenge for the 2 years or so when she had to remain drink free when pregnant and was breastfeeding and drive me everywhere!
I have heard that vitamin B12 deficiency (or at least taking it with a hangover) helps reduce the symptoms of a hangover - do you know if this is true? I was told this by a doctor friend who liked to spin a few yarns about self medication, so I've never really been sure. (Interestingly he's the same guy who claims he drank more after learning about the impact of drinking during medical training as he found out the body was more resilient than he had previously thought!)
And just one more thing - I'm sure you drink a lot of it now, but I'm sure the "T" in "Teetotal" is spelled "Tee" not "Tea"
(Tee representing the letter T, like H in H Hour or D in D Day).
My condition is known as pernicious anaemia, or at least was in my day. It can be controlled by diet in (my) milder form although my brother has to have regular injections, now every four weeks. The hangover symptoms come from dehydration but as I don't make red blood cells in such situations I don't recover quickly. After a long weekend where I didn't drink all that much but ate rubbish food for four days I was taken into hospital after going yellow, the suggestion being I had jaundice. I was then given a decent meal and returned to normal (visually) and the doctor made a joke, saying I had 24-hour jaundice. I didn't get it, he didn't explain it and when I went to outpatients and told the next doctor he laughed, thinking I was making the joke. It was all very confusing.I have heard that vitamin B12 deficiency (or at least taking it with a hangover) helps reduce the symptoms of a hangover - do you know if this is true? I was told this by a doctor friend who liked to spin a few yarns about self medication, so I've never really been sure. (Interestingly he's the same guy who claims he drank more after learning about the impact of drinking during medical training as he found out the body was more resilient than he had previously thought!)
And just one more thing - I'm sure you drink a lot of it now, but I'm sure the "T" in "Teetotal" is spelled "Tee" not "Tea"
(Tee representing the letter T, like H in H Hour or D in D Day). I am under the impression that the term is generic and there are quite a few variations as to cause and symptoms. Mine was discovered when I mentioned I had tingling in my hands and feet. PA killed my grandfather. He had to eat raw liver everyday so it was probably a relief.
I am not allergic to alcohol as such. Although little while ago if I touched alcohol it made my skin break out in a very unsightly rash.
My daughter was taken into hosp lasty Wed with a disease she picked up in Tunisia. It meant that for 3 1/2 days I was eating junk food. This meant I had to make certain I didn't eat crisps, nuts, peanuts, spicy sauces, that sort of thing. My daughter is OK now and I'm eating normally but feel a bit tired, a symptom of pernicious anaemia.
You are right about the spelling of teetotalism.
Derek;
Any chance you could post links to the research you've found on drinking?
Your conclusions seem to be be fairly different to those I've reaches from my limited research. For example we recently had a child so I did some reading into mothers drinking whilst pregnant and could t find anything showing that moderate drinking had any detrimental effects. Recent Scandinavian research seemed to agree.
Similarly for every research saying drinking ' moderate' amounts has bad effects there is another saying it has good. And as the 'weekly limits' have ZERO science behind how they were set it is hard to determine what the proven pros and cons are..:
Any chance you could post links to the research you've found on drinking?
Your conclusions seem to be be fairly different to those I've reaches from my limited research. For example we recently had a child so I did some reading into mothers drinking whilst pregnant and could t find anything showing that moderate drinking had any detrimental effects. Recent Scandinavian research seemed to agree.
Similarly for every research saying drinking ' moderate' amounts has bad effects there is another saying it has good. And as the 'weekly limits' have ZERO science behind how they were set it is hard to determine what the proven pros and cons are..:
c7xlg said:
Similarly for every research saying drinking ' moderate' amounts has bad effects there is another saying it has good. And as the 'weekly limits' have ZERO science behind how they were set it is hard to determine what the proven pros and cons are..:
In any case, epidemiologists are rather like Oscar Wilde's cynics, knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing. There is more to life than what is good for one's health.
Typical person gets up at 6am, commutes and pays lots for the privilege, worrys about work and gets home, stressed at 630pm and has little spare money and pays everything in tax. Its dark and wet and cold outside. What else is there to do? People are fed up, can you blame poor old taxed to death middle england!
c7xlg said:
Derek;
Any chance you could post links to the research you've found on drinking?
Your conclusions seem to be be fairly different to those I've reaches from my limited research. For example we recently had a child so I did some reading into mothers drinking whilst pregnant and could t find anything showing that moderate drinking had any detrimental effects. Recent Scandinavian research seemed to agree.
Similarly for every research saying drinking ' moderate' amounts has bad effects there is another saying it has good. And as the 'weekly limits' have ZERO science behind how they were set it is hard to determine what the proven pros and cons are..:
Most of my research was in the 80s, pre-internet. I was given some by my doctor, a muslim, and there were 'links' to reseach at universities and the publications were available through libraries (remember them?). Recently though my daughter has been at uni to become a midwife. A few years ago I went on a run to the Champagne district and spent time sitting around a table where there was free bubbly. I was the only one sober. I moaned when I got back - it was a difficult time for me for other reasons - and she sympathised. When she was on the course she gave me some research on cleft palate in children and alcohol is implicated, very strongly. It is date specific and quantity dependent.Any chance you could post links to the research you've found on drinking?
Your conclusions seem to be be fairly different to those I've reaches from my limited research. For example we recently had a child so I did some reading into mothers drinking whilst pregnant and could t find anything showing that moderate drinking had any detrimental effects. Recent Scandinavian research seemed to agree.
Similarly for every research saying drinking ' moderate' amounts has bad effects there is another saying it has good. And as the 'weekly limits' have ZERO science behind how they were set it is hard to determine what the proven pros and cons are..:
However, if you research it you will find links in the research regarding other research into the effects of alcohol during pregnancy. Much of the resarch is 'old', around ten years I seem to remember, but some still goes on into cleft palates, but the connection between alcohol has, I think, been proven so no point in doing much more.
There was one Canadian bit of research on it which led me to something in Australia.
It is not so much regular drinking - although this too is harmful according to some research - but the binges.
Further, drinking while breastfeeding has been proved to be harmful. Again quantity is the problem in most conditions but there is considerable evidence to suggest that any amount has a detrimental effect on babies under the age of 1 year, mental being relevant.
If you was to be horrified then see the pictures of kids with cleft palates.
My daughter has cut her intake of alcohol since studying to be a midwife.
She's qualified now and will start work at her new hospital on Monday.
jonah35 said:
Typical person gets up at 6am, commutes and pays lots for the privilege, worrys about work and gets home, stressed at 630pm and has little spare money and pays everything in tax. Its dark and wet and cold outside. What else is there to do? People are fed up, can you blame poor old taxed to death middle england!
Watch the baby boom. And they should drink moonshine anyway, otherwise it's more cash to the gov... yeeh-haaa
A good few years ago I read an interesting article which concluded that if you drank very rarely and in moderation you could expect to live to the ripe old age of 82. The same article went on to say if you drank frequently and occasionally to excess you would probably only live to be 78. So fk it , I'll forgo the last four years dribbling away in a nursing home and enjoy my time here a little more with a glass or two as and when I feel like it
k it , I'll forgo the last four years dribbling away in a nursing home and enjoy my time here a little more with a glass or two as and when I feel like itDerek Smith said:
Most of my research was in the 80s, pre-internet. I was given some by my doctor, a muslim, and there were 'links' to reseach at universities and the publications were available through libraries (remember them?).
That is rather like taking dietary advice from a vegetarian, Derek. It is human nature to focus on 'evidence' that supports any a priori conclusion. It is a scientists job to ward against such pre-conclusions. And doctors make rotten scientists.Alcohol is undoubtedly the most powerful and dangerous drug that most people will voluntarily come into contact with, and binge drinking is considerably more dangerous and damaging than staying permanently slightly drunk. But there isn't good medical evidence against moderate consumption.
grumbledoak said:
That is rather like taking dietary advice from a vegetarian, Derek. It is human nature to focus on 'evidence' that supports any a priori conclusion. It is a scientists job to ward against such pre-conclusions. And doctors make rotten scientists.
Alcohol is undoubtedly the most powerful and dangerous drug that most people will voluntarily come into contact with, and binge drinking is considerably more dangerous and damaging than staying permanently slightly drunk. But there isn't good medical evidence against moderate consumption.
The definition of 'moderate' has changed over time. It also changes from country to country. Alcohol is undoubtedly the most powerful and dangerous drug that most people will voluntarily come into contact with, and binge drinking is considerably more dangerous and damaging than staying permanently slightly drunk. But there isn't good medical evidence against moderate consumption.
To give my doctor her due the only thing she said was that by any definition, alcohol was a poison. I made some pathetic moan about it being unfair that I could not drink - I was looking for a cure - and she said that if I felt I could not enjoy myself without alcohol I should, perhaps, look to my lifestyle.
She was prosecuted for claiming for too many patients, something like 3x as many. So she wasn't a dedicated follower of the teaching of the prophet.
If I could I would still be drinking now. Probably a glass of wine or two each day and a bit more at parties and such. However, from what I've read and researched I am satisfied that there is little to suggest a 'safe' medical level and there certainly isn't a safe level for driving.
On a slightly different note, after 30 years in the police I cannot remember one instance of domestic violence where alchol wasn't involved. Sometimes the offenders were not, in the accepted sense, drunk.
Derek Smith said:
To give my doctor her due the only thing she said was that by any definition, alcohol was a poison.
Oh, it is. That is why we develop a tolerance for it; our body chemistry changes to protect us from the toxin. But we are very resilient to it; a hardened alcoholic can drink enough in one session to kill a non-drinker and still function. This is (part of) why binge-drinking is so bad, the binge drinker does not start with the body chemistry to cope with the alcohol load.grumbledoak said:
Oh, it is. That is why we develop a tolerance for it; our body chemistry changes to protect us from the toxin. But we are very resilient to it; a hardened alcoholic can drink enough in one session to kill a non-drinker and still function. This is (part of) why binge-drinking is so bad, the binge drinker does not start with the body chemistry to cope with the alcohol load.
It is the same with opiates. Whilst a tolerance can be built, there are still effects. Indeed, tolerance is an effect. It changes one's body, in some specifics, permanently. I don't think it has ever been suggested that these changes are a positive feature apart from the limited asepct of not being killed by binge drinking.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff