Lord Carey in epic homophobic Godwin outburst
Discussion
CommanderJameson said:
"Because equality" is, historically speaking, one of the greatest drivers for some of the greatest things we've achieved as a society.
That's not "because because", no matter how much you'd like it to be.
They have equality in so much as the terms can possibly apply to them.That's not "because because", no matter how much you'd like it to be.
So because because seems to be your argument.
Right after a mods discussion it's felt that the thread still has some legs, please don't start in the same manner that we finished in i.e a circular discussion, and please don't let the debate get homophobic or offensive.
As long as those guidelines are observed then let the debate continue........
As long as those guidelines are observed then let the debate continue........
Big Al. said:
Right after a mods discussion it's felt that the thread still has some legs, please don't start in the same manner that we finished in i.e a circular discussion, and please don't let the debate get homophobic or offensive.
As long as those guidelines are observed then let the debate continue........
Cheers, chap.As long as those guidelines are observed then let the debate continue........
JonRB said:
NoNeed said:
Sorry to sound thick but does that mean it isn't an irrational fear like other phobias?
Well, yes and no. It is an irrational fear or hatred in the same way that racism is. Anyway group hugs anyone?
JonRB said:
NoNeed said:
Sorry to sound thick but does that mean it isn't an irrational fear like other phobias?
Well, yes and no. It is an irrational fear or hatred in the same way that racism is. Breadvan72 said:
...but, like racism, not one that is an innate condition. It is a form of unreason that is culturally acquired.
That just doesn't hang together. In your analysis, where did the first racist come from? And without a first racist, how can he ever have passed it on to others who "culturally acquire" it?I say racism is an aspect of peoples innate fear of the unfamiliar. They need to be educated OUT of that, not INTO it.
You can see that racism is a learned attribute by watching very small children playing. They are blind to ethnicity. Racism developed early in human history, humans having been social animals living in groups since they first fell from trees. That homophobia is a cultural thing is apparent to anyone who studies societies such as those of classical Greece and Rome.
There was a rather disturbing experiment carried out in the 70s in an American school. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bWlTZZN3DY
The teacher was trying to combat prejudice and wanted a method of explaing it to the kids, around 10 years of age, in an understandable form. And, to give her her due, she did.
She split the class into groups, using eye colour. Nowadays the danger of this should be obvious to a teacher but autre temps and all that.
She then told the children with blue eyes that they were 'special' and superior to the kids with other coloured eyes. The results were startling and rather worrying for anyone who thinks we are logical people.
It went on a little longer but in essence it was to show that people can be moulded into prejudice.
It is a shame that the argument centred on the abuse of the children by the teacher. I can see no argument, it is clear that she was in the wrong. But the results were clear enough. Prejudice is learned.
Whilst the methods of the experiment are to be deplored, it is something which has stuck with me over the years.
Edited to add:
Friend sent me this link after reading my post: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2221013/Vi...
The teacher was trying to combat prejudice and wanted a method of explaing it to the kids, around 10 years of age, in an understandable form. And, to give her her due, she did.
She split the class into groups, using eye colour. Nowadays the danger of this should be obvious to a teacher but autre temps and all that.
She then told the children with blue eyes that they were 'special' and superior to the kids with other coloured eyes. The results were startling and rather worrying for anyone who thinks we are logical people.
It went on a little longer but in essence it was to show that people can be moulded into prejudice.
It is a shame that the argument centred on the abuse of the children by the teacher. I can see no argument, it is clear that she was in the wrong. But the results were clear enough. Prejudice is learned.
Whilst the methods of the experiment are to be deplored, it is something which has stuck with me over the years.
Edited to add:
Friend sent me this link after reading my post: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2221013/Vi...
Edited by Derek Smith on Monday 22 October 08:07
Derek Smith said:
There was a rather disturbing experiment carried out in the 70s in an American school. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bWlTZZN3DY
The teacher was trying to combat prejudice and wanted a method of explaing it to the kids, around 10 years of age, in an understandable form. And, to give her her due, she did.
She split the class into groups, using eye colour. Nowadays the danger of this should be obvious to a teacher but autre temps and all that.
She then told the children with blue eyes that they were 'special' and superior to the kids with other coloured eyes. The results were startling and rather worrying for anyone who thinks we are logical people.
It went on a little longer but in essence it was to show that people can be moulded into prejudice.
It is a shame that the argument centred on the abuse of the children by the teacher. I can see no argument, it is clear that she was in the wrong. But the results were clear enough. Prejudice is learned.
Whilst the methods of the experiment are to be deplored, it is something which has stuck with me over the years.
I remember studying this experiment when I was doing my GCSEs, some 24 years ago. It's up there with Milgram's experiment in terms of showing how easily people can be manipulated, IMHO.The teacher was trying to combat prejudice and wanted a method of explaing it to the kids, around 10 years of age, in an understandable form. And, to give her her due, she did.
She split the class into groups, using eye colour. Nowadays the danger of this should be obvious to a teacher but autre temps and all that.
She then told the children with blue eyes that they were 'special' and superior to the kids with other coloured eyes. The results were startling and rather worrying for anyone who thinks we are logical people.
It went on a little longer but in essence it was to show that people can be moulded into prejudice.
It is a shame that the argument centred on the abuse of the children by the teacher. I can see no argument, it is clear that she was in the wrong. But the results were clear enough. Prejudice is learned.
Whilst the methods of the experiment are to be deplored, it is something which has stuck with me over the years.
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