Teacher training tests
Discussion
London424 said:
maix27 said:
London424 said:
maix27 said:
I think half the problem is that teaching is so underpaid and under appreciated that people with the skills and experience to do other stuff, do.
Which is a shame as, and i'm only guessing, most people would like their kids to be taught by experts in their chosen fields.
It's a tough job and i wouldn't do it. But that doesn't mean that we should let any old person do it either.
The other point is that with some levels of primary school, you don't need to have a degree in maths to be a good teacher across the board.
It's a toughie, i think.
What do you consider underpaid? Which is a shame as, and i'm only guessing, most people would like their kids to be taught by experts in their chosen fields.
It's a tough job and i wouldn't do it. But that doesn't mean that we should let any old person do it either.
The other point is that with some levels of primary school, you don't need to have a degree in maths to be a good teacher across the board.
It's a toughie, i think.
What do you think is a reasonable salary for a fresh teacher? An experienced teacher?
What would you think?
Big jumps in salary would come with additional responsibility e.g Head of Dept/Year/Form etc.
In your examples above you are suggesting approx 10% pay rises per year...completely unrealistic and unaffordable.
maix27 said:
Marf said:
Justayellowbadge said:
maix27 said:
joema said:
'those who can, can. Those who can't, teach'
Isn't the quote, 'those who can, do.'?
pork911 said:
teaching children is important - therefore teachers are important - I am / want to be a teacher therefore I am important and so are my views
Technically, that should be the case. I think the people who will eventually educating my kids should be important. If they're not, what are you saying? I suppose the trouble is that one too many are very quick to offer unconsidered opinions (the speed at which they're offered is the best indicator of this).
It's more than likely anyway that, within the next six months, Michael Gove will have worked out how to clone himself and every teacher in the country will be some Gove-clone (well, that's what happened in my nightmare last night).
maix27 said:
pork911 said:
teaching children is important - therefore teachers are important - I am / want to be a teacher therefore I am important and so are my views
Technically, that should be the case. I think the people who will eventually educating my kids should be important. If they're not, what are you saying? I suppose the trouble is that one too many are very quick to offer unconsidered opinions (the speed at which they're offered is the best indicator of this).
maix27 said:
It's more than likely anyway that, within the next six months, Michael Gove will have worked out how to clone himself and every teacher in the country will be some Gove-clone (well, that's what happened in my nightmare last night).
There's no doubt that the clones would be very effective, but I agree the thought is extremely sinister. 
SpeedMattersNot said:
I also think that teachers should get paid more to teach at poor schools. The schools in good area's get the cream of the crop, because teachers want to live in nice area's, they'll all apply and they can take on the best. The weak teachers will have to move to where they can get employed and will most likely be in a rough area.
Catch 22.
Poor schools get money and resources thrown at them and there are ways and means that the Head can direct that to the right teachers.Catch 22.
Good and bad schools can be very close to each other so it doesn't matter where teachers live - in fact one of the odd things about the profession is a lot of teachers seem to live a long way from their school. That's one of the main reasons why it's hard to open schools in bad weather - few teaches can get in.
Interesting, I can only really speak for the area's I've grown up in or lived in.
At the moment, where I live, there are only two upper schools. One has a distinct advantage in location so that most children who attend are far more affluent than those who attend the other. As you say, they are only 2-3 miles apart but the contrast in area's surrounding the school directly is massive.
I do though know of a few teachers who live very far away from work. A lot of them don't want to go out in the evenings and bump into the students - something that happens to me and my wife on a few occasions. But she'd rather the 10 minute drive into work any-day and I don't blame her.
At the moment, where I live, there are only two upper schools. One has a distinct advantage in location so that most children who attend are far more affluent than those who attend the other. As you say, they are only 2-3 miles apart but the contrast in area's surrounding the school directly is massive.
I do though know of a few teachers who live very far away from work. A lot of them don't want to go out in the evenings and bump into the students - something that happens to me and my wife on a few occasions. But she'd rather the 10 minute drive into work any-day and I don't blame her.
hairykrishna said:
Paying more would probably help - it works for private schools. My brother has a PhD in theoretical physics and teaches maths at a private school. You'd struggle to find a more competent mathematician. Moving to a state school would result in him more than halving his salary.
That's interesting - you often hear it said that private school teachers get paid less.When you say it would more than halve, hwo much do you think a state school teacher gets?
hairykrishna said:
Paying more would probably help - it works for private schools. My brother has a PhD in theoretical physics and teaches maths at a private school. You'd struggle to find a more competent mathematician. Moving to a state school would result in him more than halving his salary.
What about the pension?!motco said:
OdramaSwimLaden said:
Listening of the radio this morning it will be a test done in a room with a pc and you have 12 seconds to answer each question. If you fail, you have to wait 2 years to re-take.
One sample question was - What is 17% of 175?
Not many could do that without a calculator in twelve seconds. One sample question was - What is 17% of 175?
Most, if not all, major graduate schemes require online numerical and verbal reasoning tests to be completed as part of the application process - much tougher than the teacher training examples given. Often the time allowed is impossibly low by design with negative marking to catch out guesses - important if the job requires attention to detail and they would rather you answer 6 questions 100% correct rather than 10 question 60% correct.
You can try practice ones here if you - http://www.shldirect.com/practice_tests.html
They also have higher minimum requirements: 1st or 2.1 (student teachers can get funding if they have 2.2 or self-fund if they have 3rd); B at GCSE Maths/English (C for teachers); and a minimum of 300 UCAS points for basic schemes such as Audit, rising to 320 for areas like consulting (PGCE courses often accept sub-300).
One of the few teacher training chemes tougher than most graduate schemes would be Teach First although that is probably more because of the doors it opens in business once you've completed your teaching contract.
Deva Link said:
That's interesting - you often hear it said that private school teachers get paid less.
When you say it would more than halve, hwo much do you think a state school teacher gets?
Going on what he told me, a similarly experienced state school teacher would be on ~£25k. I don't think his school is typical - it mainly caters to far eastern students. It also typically only hires teachers with doctorates in the appropriate subject.When you say it would more than halve, hwo much do you think a state school teacher gets?
hairykrishna said:
Going on what he told me, a similarly experienced state school teacher would be on ~£25k. I don't think his school is typical - it mainly caters to far eastern students. It also typically only hires teachers with doctorates in the appropriate subject.
Ah, OK, that's a bit different.In an ordinary state school, if he's in or around London he'd start on more than £25K though. Good maths teachers are much sought after and he could become an Advanced Skills Teacher on around £60K.
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