Do humans contribute to climate change substantially?

[XCP]

chris watton said:

XCP said:

I am interested in this talk of fuel bills. ( mine are enormous). How much of my gas or electric bill is due to MMGW policy?

Can we say if it wasn't for Gore et al, I would be x pounds a month better off?

Yep. I think it's quite telling that the ones who chose/pretend to believe in this crap are either quite well off, so fuel bills will never be a problem for them, and/or the cretins who post on here, like Gore's apostle’s, spreading the word because their livelihood depends on it, so they spread the word on their nice shiny iPads or Apple laptops, telling us that 'we' must sacrifice more of our hard earned to keep them living in comfort.

The more they post, the more I am convinced it is a money making scam.

So if I pay, say, £200 a month on fuel, how much less would I pay but for MMGW policy??
Is there a way I can quantify the amount??

[Apache]

The bills used to have a breakdown on the back of them but I cant seem to find anything now.

This is one version of the percentages

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/feb/27/...

[Jasandjules]

XCP said:

So if I pay, say, £200 a month on fuel, how much less would I pay but for MMGW policy??
Is there a way I can quantify the amount??

We don't need to worry about it, you see, temps will be so high that no-one in the UK will need their heating on anymore...................

[Terminator X]

PRTVR said:

How things change and they forget things that were predicted in the past ,the predictions and the association's they make are as changeable as the weather.
Droughts in the UK anyone.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4091068.stm

I'm old enough to remember forest fires in the uk summer of 76 and the hurricane of 87 ... climate change ffs?!

TX.

[XCP]

Apache said:

The bills used to have a breakdown on the back of them but I cant seem to find anything now.

This is one version of the percentages

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/feb/27/...

But what to believe?
On the one hand you have a figure less than £2 a month being bandied about, on the other hand you have talk of old people freezing to death.
I really don't know what to believe.
On the other hand, perhaps thats how 'they' like it...

[mybrainhurts]

Terminator X said:

PRTVR said:

How things change and they forget things that were predicted in the past ,the predictions and the association's they make are as changeable as the weather.
Droughts in the UK anyone.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4091068.stm

I'm old enough to remember forest fires in the uk summer of 76 and the hurricane of 87 ... climate change ffs?!

TX.

Derbyshire/Yorkshire moors used to burn over large areas when I was a nipper. That was down to discarded fags and glass bottles and sunlight, long gone with the advent of plastic bottles. I wouldn't put it past a greenfreak to deliberately start this again, then blame it on global warming.

Constant rain will put paid to that, though. Which is nice...

[V88Dicky]

XCP said:

Apache said:

The bills used to have a breakdown on the back of them but I cant seem to find anything now.

This is one version of the percentages

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/feb/27/...

But what to believe?
On the one hand you have a figure less than £2 a month being bandied about, on the other hand you have talk of old people freezing to death.
I really don't know what to believe.
On the other hand, perhaps thats how 'they' like it...

Well, the Climate Change Act (2008) commits the UK unilaterally to spending over £18 billion per year until 2050, on 'combatting climate change'.

That's gotta be paid for somehow.

Enough to make you cry, isn't it?

[jurbie]

XCP said:

So if I pay, say, £200 a month on fuel, how much less would I pay but for MMGW policy??
Is there a way I can quantify the amount??

I think it works out at about 14% of your bill going on green taxes, here are some pie charts which give a good breakdown.

http://www.energy-uk.org.uk/customers/about-your-e...

However the cost to you will be going up in April as that is when George Osbournes carbon floor price comes into affect. The energy companies will be forced to pay £16 for every ton of CO2 they create and rising to about £70 a ton by 2030.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/9746864/The-sha...

[jurbie]

It's not a Daily Mail figure it's off the back of my bill although all my billing is online these days so the figures aren't quite so in my face as they used to be.

A quick rummage around the British Gas website gets me this:



So 11% for gas and 20% for leccy which I would guess gets to around the figures I quoted originally when you strip out VAT and other taxes.
http://www.britishgas.co.uk/youraccount/discover/y...

Here is what nPower customers pay.

12% so my original figure was out by 2% but still better than your wildly optimistic 5%.
http://www.npower.com/idc/groups/wcms_content/@wcm...

[Globs]

Bedazzled said:

Should have gone to specsavers...

Not 5% though is it? By any stretch.
Your own confirmation bias?

[turbobloke]

You can't just take provider/Ofgem numbers on faith either as that would be an act of belief

As always it depends on whose cooked books are consulted. Ofgem don't include the European Emissions Trading scheme impact, whereas some DECC figures do. 15% of electricity bills is quite reasonable as an estimate of artificial green cost increases for no valid purpose.

The wonderful Energy Bill is said to triple green subsidies, aren't we the lucky ones and pensioners in particular will be pleased.

Also we can't pass this one by without mentioning the word fraud, so often so apt in these matters.

Fraud

[mybrainhurts]

Are those figures subject to statutory audit, or are they outside the scope of audit?

[deeps]

Haha, just imagine having this conversation xx years ago, you wouldn't have believed anyone who joked down the pub that the government was going to introduce taxation with a claim to being able to control the climate!

Yet here we are in 2012, after persistent drip drip propaganda, we see our energy bills have increased to raise funds to supposedly do just that! Carbon taxation, carbon permits, carbon trading, carbon blah blah... of course resulting in nothing more than colossal amounts of money changing hands in exchange for fk all! What a bunch of suckers we are to put up with such blatant fraud! What's the alternative? I dunno, probably to vote UKIP.

[powerstroke]

V88Dicky said:

Well, the Climate Change Act (2008) commits the UK unilaterally to spending over £18 billion per year until 2050, on 'combatting climate change'.

That's gotta be paid for somehow.

Enough to make you cry, isn't it?

Yes it is , and the stupid idea we as a tiny wet little wet island can make any difference to the climate by cutting emissions is just absurd, sadly we have a gullible public, a media who love a good scare story, scintists with a hunger for funding and politcians a lust for power and tax rasing..

[Jasandjules]

deeps said:

Haha, just imagine having this conversation xx years ago, you wouldn't have believed anyone who joked down the pub that the government was going to introduce taxation with a claim to being able to control the climate!

Odd, isn't it? I wait for DC to go to she shore and stop the tide next.

[turbobloke]

Bedazzled said:

turbobloke said:

15% of electricity bills is quite reasonable as an estimate of artificial green cost increases for no valid purpose.

You can pluck numbers out of thin air if you wish...

Or I can take them via DECC which is quite different.

The fact of the matter remains that any baseless and pointless purpose for an increase is baseless and pointless, and is forcing a section of society to choose between heating and eating with tens of thousands of additional premature winter deaths from hypothermia as a result.

[Gene Vincent]

Bedazzled said:

Should have gone to specsavers...

Another example of double standards from the skeptics, bandying about DM exaggerations with gay abandon; I believe it's called confirmation bias?

Accepting the 8% as being the full figure would be like a driver thinking that his only costs in running a car is only the fuel needed to run it.

The green taxation runs right through almost all the other parts of those percentages.

It will be how, if we don't make sufficient fuss now, that all the good that will come with the true drop in energy prices thanks to fracking will be absorbed.

I'm dismayed that it seems intelligent people still fail to see the 'cheat' that one simple direct tax is all there is to creaming off money from energy control.

That is why we who can see this deceit are morally obliged to explain the greater truth at every opportunity.

15% is in my opinion about right but if anything a little on the conservative side.

With the institutionalisation of deceptive graphs like the one above the deceit has a good grip in the public mind already.

It is deception.

[Diderot]

Bedazzled said:

turbobloke said:

Bedazzled said:

turbobloke said:

15% of electricity bills is quite reasonable as an estimate of artificial green cost increases for no valid purpose.

You can pluck numbers out of thin air if you wish...

Or I can take them via DECC which is quite different.

DECC Estimated impacts of energy and climate change policies on energy prices and bills here - "Based on Ofgem’s analysis, energy and climate change policies are estimated to represent 7% of the total household energy bill in 2009. DECC’s estimates of the breakdown of an average domestic gas and electricity bill in 2010, as noted in Chart 1, are broadly similar to Ofgem’s".



So that's (12+4)/2 = 8% green taxes, compared with 5-7% quoted by Ofgem and customer bills.

Bedazzled, you lot simply can't help yourselves can you? Whether its a hockey stick, a pie or a rainbowed coloured kettle, you always seem to overlook the obvious ... an averaging of estimated figures that are 2 years out of date.

[XCP]

I wish I'd never asked now. It seems there is very little consensus on how much MMGW is costing me.

[rovermorris999]

Let's not forget the other taxes that have been increased and painted green like VED and Air Passenger Duty.

Edited by rovermorris999 on Friday 28th December 12:07