another abuse gang

[heppers75]

s1962a said:

heppers75 said:

s1962a said:

Honestly!

I know wikipedia is loathed and loved at the same time, but I found this interesting reading about our history. Pot. Kettle. and all that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent#Histor...

Is the point surely though that this is exactly that history?

If there were groups/gangs of English males in Victorian reenactment societies out there drugging and forcing 12 year olds into prostitution there would be outrage and public cries for those groups/gangs to be targeted for the prevention of such - and rightly so!

There are clearly groups/gangs of another demographic and or similar mindset which are grouped based on probably many premises including socioeconomic, educational and some warped mindset and also like it or not seemingly include their country of birth and their shared religious persuasion, which are doing exactly that yet it appears from a number of quarters to be unacceptable to pursue or even mention that as such. In fact from many who are now of course silent to even acknowledge that they are the facts as available and the mere mention of those facts causes outrage.

I for one do not know why that is, as I have stated before if the facts were pointing towards Jamaican Yardies, go after them, if the facts are pointing towards Romanian Gypsies, go after them, if the facts point towards 18-40 year old white, left handed male members of the church of the latter day saints, go after them.

Just because the facts point somewhere that is uncomfortable does not negate them from being the facts!

I agree with you, but trying to make excuses for these sick individuals that somehow their religion made them do is just a cop out.

If you take the last 100 british people arrested in the far east for peado offences, could you try and work out a commone reason of why they are like that, other than that they are just sickos?

TBH I am not sure anyone with any sense on here is saying their religion made them do it, I think that many are saying like many fundamentalist areas of societies fringes, they will use religion as an excuse and or justification at some point - look at the likes of the KKK and other Christian right morons - they all do it! Look at ISIS look at Northern Ireland look at the Crusades - frankly look at the last 2000 years of human history insofar as acts of atrocity and war are concerned and for the most part there will be some form or an extremist view of a religion at the centre of it somewhere.

Also the trouble is with the analogy above is the 100 people in the Far East are highly unlikely to be working as a conjoined group/gang in a manner almost akin to Organised Crime, they will be I suspect for the most part individuals. These cases are not that and comparing them to such is apples and oranges and this is also seemingly very widespread around the country but with some very common themes and it is those common themes that are pointing towards areas of discomfort. However you know what, they are what they are and there are clearly patterns and threads and commonalities that need to be pursued irrespective of the level of discomfort that causes.

If facts give you the information that a majority of perpetrators have common traits A, B, C, D & E then all of those traits need to be properly examined and understood as to if they are a part of the causality of the issue. If I share B with them and you share E with them then guess what we are both going to feel uncomfortable with that and perhaps be defensive of it - does not stop it being a part of the facts though or stop it needing to be investigated.

[WinstonWolf]

TTwiggy said:

WinstonWolf said:

Religion of any sort should be consigned to the history books IMO. No-one has satisfactorily managed to explain the difference between Santa and God, other than for the colour of the beard.

This would be a rare case of you and I agreeing

Right, back to the disagreeing...

[Mermaid]

Countdown said:

How would the moderate and peaceful element know that it was going on? I don't think the people that did this did it front of their own community any more than they did it in front of the general public?

I'm not an expert but when people indulge in behaviour like this I'm guessing that they keep it hidden to themselves and their own group?

ETA - Hypothetically, there's a bloke down the road called "Abdul". He's a bit of a chav, drives like a d1ck, and rumour is he sells weed. I don't socialise with him as such. Apparently he's got a "white girlfriend". At what point would you suspect that he's a peadophile?

& if you saw the same tomorrow

[don4l]

Countdown said:

How would the moderate and peaceful element know that it was going on? I don't think the people that did this did it front of their own community any more than they did it in front of the general public?

I'm not an expert but when people indulge in behaviour like this I'm guessing that they keep it hidden to themselves and their own group?

ETA - Hypothetically, there's a bloke down the road called "Abdul". He's a bit of a chav, drives like a d1ck, and rumour is he sells weed. I don't socialise with him as such. Apparently he's got a "white girlfriend". At what point would you suspect that he's a peadophile?

Edited by Countdown on Wednesday 3rd September 15:19

If he collected his "girlfriend" from the local primary school every day, then I might suspect that something was amiss.

[Countdown]

don4l said:

If he collected his "girlfriend" from the local primary school every day, then I might suspect that something was amiss.

Completely agree - assuming that I was passing the primary school and saw him doing it. However I'd hope that the Teachers who are there every day, and know the pupils far better than I do, would be more alert than a random passer-by.

[carinaman]

don4l said:

If he collected his "girlfriend" from the local primary school every day, then I might suspect that something was amiss.

Especially if it involves strapping her into a booster seat in the back.

[don4l]

Countdown said:

don4l said:

If he collected his "girlfriend" from the local primary school every day, then I might suspect that something was amiss.

Completely agree - assuming that I was passing the primary school and saw him doing it. However I'd hope that the Teachers who are there every day, and know the pupils far better than I do, would be more alert than a random passer-by.

You must have missed my earlier post about a retired teacher who used to work in Haringey. The teachers knew what was happening. They were not allowed to contact the police.

[simes43]

don4l said:

Countdown said:

don4l said:

If he collected his "girlfriend" from the local primary school every day, then I might suspect that something was amiss.

Completely agree - assuming that I was passing the primary school and saw him doing it. However I'd hope that the Teachers who are there every day, and know the pupils far better than I do, would be more alert than a random passer-by.

You must have missed my earlier post about a retired teacher who used to work in Haringey. The teachers knew what was happening. They were not allowed to contact the police.

Is this where the teachers were hiding the children in school cupboards to save them from the abusers?

How on earth this could take place unpunished, I will never know.

[simes43]

Mermaid said:

Countdown said:

How would the moderate and peaceful element know that it was going on? I don't think the people that did this did it front of their own community any more than they did it in front of the general public?

I'm not an expert but when people indulge in behaviour like this I'm guessing that they keep it hidden to themselves and their own group?

ETA - Hypothetically, there's a bloke down the road called "Abdul". He's a bit of a chav, drives like a d1ck, and rumour is he sells weed. I don't socialise with him as such. Apparently he's got a "white girlfriend". At what point would you suspect that he's a peadophile?

& if you saw the same tomorrow

Silence implies guilt.

[Mermaid]

simes43 said:

Mermaid said:

Countdown said:

How would the moderate and peaceful element know that it was going on? I don't think the people that did this did it front of their own community any more than they did it in front of the general public?

I'm not an expert but when people indulge in behaviour like this I'm guessing that they keep it hidden to themselves and their own group?

ETA - Hypothetically, there's a bloke down the road called "Abdul". He's a bit of a chav, drives like a d1ck, and rumour is he sells weed. I don't socialise with him as such. Apparently he's got a "white girlfriend". At what point would you suspect that he's a peadophile?

& if you saw the same tomorrow

Silence implies guilt.

Because it was happening for many many yesterdays, and it is beyond belief that this savvy community had no inkling

[Countdown]

don4l said:

Countdown said:

don4l said:

If he collected his "girlfriend" from the local primary school every day, then I might suspect that something was amiss.

Completely agree - assuming that I was passing the primary school and saw him doing it. However I'd hope that the Teachers who are there every day, and know the pupils far better than I do, would be more alert than a random passer-by.

You must have missed my earlier post about a retired teacher who used to work in Haringey. The teachers knew what was happening. They were not allowed to contact the police.

Apologies as I missed your post. Did it say why the teacher couldn't have reported it anonymously?

[Countdown]

Mermaid said:

Because it was happening for many many yesterdays, and it is beyond belief that this savvy community had no inkling

You seem a fairly savvy bloke. Do you know which of your friends/neighbours/colleagues are paedophiles?

[RobGT81]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwAhrU_wTdA

[Fantic SuperT]

TTwiggy said:

WinstonWolf said:

They have been notably quiet, other than to point out that there was some mighty questionable behaviour going on here back in the dark ages. Perhaps that's the common denominator?

That was in direct response to a poster who stated, as fact, that Muhammad raped a 9-year-old - as if that somehow explains why these men are doing it too.

I thought he married a nine year old then waited until she had her first period at 12 before treating her to his 50+ years of experience. At least no-one is suggesting he was a role model...

[simes43]

Countdown said:

don4l said:

Countdown said:

don4l said:

If he collected his "girlfriend" from the local primary school every day, then I might suspect that something was amiss.

Completely agree - assuming that I was passing the primary school and saw him doing it. However I'd hope that the Teachers who are there every day, and know the pupils far better than I do, would be more alert than a random passer-by.

You must have missed my earlier post about a retired teacher who used to work in Haringey. The teachers knew what was happening. They were not allowed to contact the police.

Apologies as I missed your post. Did it say why the teacher couldn't have reported it anonymously?

It's a gift. Nothing less than a god given gift to ignore the tone and information that has been forthcoming and
ask such a question.

Are you just pottering through the discussion just looking for an angle to justify an indefensible position?

[Countdown]

simes43 said:

It's a gift. Nothing less than a god given gift to ignore the tone and information that has been forthcoming and
ask such a question.

Are you just pottering through the discussion just looking for an angle to justify an indefensible position?

I'm not sure what indefensible position I'm trying to justify. I'm just curious as to how the Asian "community" was supposed to achieve something that teachers were unable to. Also, reading through some of the previous posts, it appears that police and social services WERE made aware of what was going on but nothing was done, so what should the Asian community have done, in addition to what was already being done?

[heppers75]

Countdown said:

I'm not sure what indefensible position I'm trying to justify. I'm just curious as to how the Asian "community" was supposed to achieve something that teachers were unable to. Also, reading through some of the previous posts, it appears that police and social services WERE made aware of what was going on but nothing was done, so what should the Asian community have done, in addition to what was already being done?

So do you or do you not agree that the facts that are currently in play across the nation it would seem point to an issue within a certain demographic and that whilst there are other issue in play which include socio economic, educational, political correctness gone mad and failings within the authorities; that the fact that these men also seem to disproportionately share a religious persuasion and ethnic background should also be a factor that is considered?

[Mermaid]

heppers75 said:

Countdown said:

I'm not sure what indefensible position I'm trying to justify. I'm just curious as to how the Asian "community" was supposed to achieve something that teachers were unable to. Also, reading through some of the previous posts, it appears that police and social services WERE made aware of what was going on but nothing was done, so what should the Asian community have done, in addition to what was already being done?

So do you or do you not agree that the facts that are currently in play across the nation it would seem point to an issue within a certain demographic and that whilst there are other issue in play which include socio economic, educational, political correctness gone mad and failings within the authorities; that the fact that these men also seem to disproportionately share a religious persuasion and ethnic background should also be a factor that is considered?

CD, don't be shy - it is not Asian men, it is Pakistani Muslims. I am sure you are ashamed of them and angry with them as the rest of us. They have made it difficult for moderates like yourself. Did you never suspect this was going on?

[simes43]

Countdown said:

simes43 said:

It's a gift. Nothing less than a god given gift to ignore the tone and information that has been forthcoming and
ask such a question.

Are you just pottering through the discussion just looking for an angle to justify an indefensible position?

I'm not sure what indefensible position I'm trying to justify. I'm just curious as to how the Asian "community" was supposed to achieve something that teachers were unable to. Also, reading through some of the previous posts, it appears that police and social services WERE made aware of what was going on but nothing was done, so what should the Asian community have done, in addition to what was already being done?

The teachers would have been told to stay quiet, risk jeopardising their career or worse. But you already know that, hence my exasperated response above.

Too many examples of this happening are on record, so don't shout source.

It is plainly obvious that in Rotherham and other towns, Pakistani men and their laughable elders have used the race card to develop a position of power over the authorities.

The Pakistani culture has a problem, it needs addressing from within, by all, not just a spokesman offering soothing rhetoric. Denial is not the response the British public require or expect or will tolerate.

Please do not use the term Asian either, there's no mention of Chinese or Indian (for instance) involvement and just another example of deflection.

Pakistani will do.

[carinaman]

Third, Fourth and Fifth paragraphs:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/30/rot...