another abuse gang

[tenpenceshort]

heppers75 said:

juat out of interest TPS do you have an actual opinion and or point in this discussion or have you just popped up to make as far as I can see in the last few pages an AK47 / PH sticker quip and a comment on grammar?

Edited by heppers75 on Thursday 4th September 08:04

From memory I made some earlier contributions or at least read the thread, before it descended into circular, entrenched repetition. This appears to be the norm when anything with Islam is discussed here.

The story is not a muslim one. It is a political one in which people responsible for children's wellbeing failed in that duty in order to avoid accusations of racism. The group in question happen to be muslim. As per your earlier question, yes, they could have been gypsies or eastern European or any other minority group (such as the church, celebrities or senior politicians- see where I am going?).

Sadly these threads quickly descend into the closet and not so closet racists lapping up an opportunity to blame Islam and the ever widening circles eminate from there.

[gpo746]

tenpenceshort said:

From memory I made some earlier contributions or at least read the thread, before it descended into circular, entrenched repetition. This appears to be the norm when anything with Islam is discussed here.

The story is not a muslim one. It is a political one in which people responsible for children's wellbeing failed in that duty in order to avoid accusations of racism. The group in question happen to be muslim. As per your earlier question, yes, they could have been gypsies or eastern European or any other minority group (such as the church, celebrities or senior politicians- see where I am going?).

Sadly these threads quickly descend into the closet and not so closet racists lapping up an opportunity to blame Islam and the ever widening circles eminate from there.

Or put another way " I am one of those patronising types that like to make you think what I know is best and along the way I am able to ignore lots of really bad things that happen.

Mind you don't worry it was well overdue that posts like yours started appearing here as the type regularly crops up on other threads when people start calling a spade a spade and saying it how it is.
If so doing that means people are "closet rascists" happen they are needed to counteract the all inclusive crap that has been allowed to fester away for the last 20 years or so.
Feel free to correct any spelling mistakes.

Edited by gpo746 on Friday 5th September 09:39

[Digga]

tenpenceshort said:

The story is not a muslim one.

Sorry, but it is. That is not to say Islam is the cause, but the offenders are, by significant majority, muslim and as others have indicated, there are clearly elements of the backgrounds of the offenders which have contributed to the proliferation of these offences.

FWIW, although there is much focus on Pakistani men, I do know of one area (and of course there may be others) where offenders were Iraqi immigrants.

tenpenceshort said:

It is a political one in which people responsible for children's wellbeing failed in that duty in order to avoid accusations of racism.

The offenders carry sole responsibility for the crimes, but I agree with you, the whole affair was facilitated by PC-driven, politically influenced public servants. In some cases, these people - police, councils, social services etc. - have acted in a criminal manner and must be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Once this has been done, in order to prevent any further influence of public duty, we need to root out the source of this PC brainwashing. There are organisations behind all of this that should not escape scrutiny and criticism, because they too are culpable.

[heppers75]

tenpenceshort said:

heppers75 said:

juat out of interest TPS do you have an actual opinion and or point in this discussion or have you just popped up to make as far as I can see in the last few pages an AK47 / PH sticker quip and a comment on grammar?

Edited by heppers75 on Thursday 4th September 08:04

From memory I made some earlier contributions or at least read the thread, before it descended into circular, entrenched repetition. This appears to be the norm when anything with Islam is discussed here.

The story is not a muslim one. It is a political one in which people responsible for children's wellbeing failed in that duty in order to avoid accusations of racism. The group in question happen to be muslim. As per your earlier question, yes, they could have been gypsies or eastern European or any other minority group (such as the church, celebrities or senior politicians- see where I am going?).

Sadly these threads quickly descend into the closet and not so closet racists lapping up an opportunity to blame Islam and the ever widening circles eminate from there.

Surely the point is that then it is just as perfectly acceptable to say there is a problem with demographic X as it is to say there is a problem with demographic Y and that problem needs to be targeted and eradicated or prevented from recurring? What needs to be done is to understand all aspects of what that entire demographic is not just their ethnicity or religion but for the most part it seems to be a part of the demographic of these perpetrators.

That seems perfectly reasonable to I suspect most people.

The problem seems to be almost self perpetuating though and accusing people of racism closet or otherwise is actually self defeating as it is exactly that defense that was clearly used to allow it to perpetuate! The fact is that label seems to get instantly attached to anyone that has the temerity to even suggest that there is any related link of impropriety emanating from within anything remotely related to that particular ethnic background or religion. It does not matter how sensitively and carefully it is couched to attempt to address any possible issue it is just shouted down with cries of persecution.

The fact is if I gave this list of common traits of a majority of these perpetrators -

Male
18-60 years old
Poorly educated
Insular lifestyle
Pakistani Muslim
Socio Economically disadvantaged
Poor societal influences
Drink and Drug culture exposure
Professions which provide exposure to potential victims

The one that gets seen and shouted down and rallied against with the cries of racism/discrimination/persecution or a.n.other objection is clearly obvious - why is that? Is it not just as valid an observation about their common traits as the others in that list?

[Mermaid]

Guam said:

Norman Tebbit on the issue.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/normantebbit/100...

What has been going on is just not cricket.

[HonestIago]

TTwiggy said:

HonestIago said:

thick white working classes whom Labour so despise.

I feel the concept of irony may be lost on you.

No it isn't. Describing people as thick does not mean I despise them. I may find their voting patterns exasperating but I wish them no ill.

[TTwiggy]

HonestIago said:

TTwiggy said:

HonestIago said:

thick white working classes whom Labour so despise.

I feel the concept of irony may be lost on you.

No it isn't. Describing people as thick does not mean I despise them. I may find their voting patterns exasperating but I wish them no ill.

So who would you like them to vote for?

I doubt the Tories, Lib Dems or Greens are going to appeal.

I'll pre-empt the cries of 'UKIP!' by stating that it's unlikely that BREXIT is high on their list of concerns.

So that just leaves the extremist parties. I'm not a fan of Labour (despite what some may think) but I'd rather they voted that way than for the BNP etc.

[HonestIago]

TTwiggy said:

So who would you like them to vote for?

I doubt the Tories, Lib Dems or Greens are going to appeal.

I'll pre-empt the cries of 'UKIP!' by stating that it's unlikely that BREXIT is high on their list of concerns.

So that just leaves the extremist parties. I'm not a fan of Labour (despite what some may think) but I'd rather they voted that way than for the BNP etc.

Yes they should, IMO, vote UKIP. If you think that leaving the EU is the only reason to vote UKIP then you, like many otherwise intelligent folks, completely misunderstand the appeal of UKIP. It is as much about democracy, accountability and, as much as I hate the expression, "Common sense politics" as it is about BREXIT.

[TTwiggy]

HonestIago said:

Yes they should, IMO, vote UKIP. If you think that leaving the EU is the only reason to vote UKIP then you, like many otherwise intelligent folks, completely misunderstand the appeal of UKIP. It is as much about democracy, accountability and, as much as I hate the expression, "Common sense politics" as it is about BREXIT.

And what sort of language will UKIP have to use to appeal to these (thick - your words, not mine) voters?

[simes43]

TTwiggy said:

HonestIago said:

Yes they should, IMO, vote UKIP. If you think that leaving the EU is the only reason to vote UKIP then you, like many otherwise intelligent folks, completely misunderstand the appeal of UKIP. It is as much about democracy, accountability and, as much as I hate the expression, "Common sense politics" as it is about BREXIT.

And what sort of language will UKIP have to use to appeal to these (thick - your words, not mine) voters?

Plenty of other threads for a UKIP discussion.

Any news on what the Pakistani heritage community is doing about all their paedophi1es?

[Digga]

simes43 said:

TTwiggy said:

HonestIago said:

Yes they should, IMO, vote UKIP. If you think that leaving the EU is the only reason to vote UKIP then you, like many otherwise intelligent folks, completely misunderstand the appeal of UKIP. It is as much about democracy, accountability and, as much as I hate the expression, "Common sense politics" as it is about BREXIT.

And what sort of language will UKIP have to use to appeal to these (thick - your words, not mine) voters?

Plenty of other threads for a UKIP discussion.

Any news on what the Pakistani heritage community is doing about all their paedophi1es?

It is, but I think politics is highly relevant here. As Tebbit said in the very accurate blog posted by Guam, political correctness and multi-culturalism created the conditions where these atrocities were possible on the scale we are now discovering.

You can heap a whole load of st on New Labour's doorstep for that, but the whole PC landscape was crafted by all the major parties - a sort of totalitarian enforcement of opinions and language.

Then, locally, in many of these areas, you look at the incumbent party - in this case, almost entirely Labour - and see how decades of power have created complacency, corruption and have also allowed some of the third world political practices to be brought into play.

If you consider what has happened from the perspective of any ordinary working person in these areas, it is not hard to see why their vote is going anywhere but PC-central. That UKIP is there to 'catch' votes that might otherwise go to more extreme parties is something I believe we should be grateful for.

Again, I repeat that the organisations behind the mindset need to be outed, because we clearly had a period where political elites/cliques were exerting great pressure to bring non-democratic changes to society and communities (and yes I realise the irony that "society and community" was an early pet phrase of such people) from behind the political mainstream.

[simes43]

Digga said:

simes43 said:

TTwiggy said:

HonestIago said:

Yes they should, IMO, vote UKIP. If you think that leaving the EU is the only reason to vote UKIP then you, like many otherwise intelligent folks, completely misunderstand the appeal of UKIP. It is as much about democracy, accountability and, as much as I hate the expression, "Common sense politics" as it is about BREXIT.

And what sort of language will UKIP have to use to appeal to these (thick - your words, not mine) voters?

Plenty of other threads for a UKIP discussion.

Any news on what the Pakistani heritage community is doing about all their paedophi1es?

It is, but I think politics is highly relevant here. As Tebbit said in the very accurate blog posted by Guam, political correctness and multi-culturalism created the conditions where these atrocities were possible on the scale we are now discovering.

You can heap a whole load of st on New Labour's doorstep for that, but the whole PC landscape was crafted by all the major parties - a sort of totalitarian enforcement of opinions and language.

Then, locally, in many of these areas, you look at the incumbent party - in this case, almost entirely Labour - and see how decades of power have created complacency, corruption and have also allowed some of the third world political practices to be brought into play.

If you consider what has happened from the perspective of any ordinary working person in these areas, it is not hard to see why their vote is going anywhere but PC-central. That UKIP is there to 'catch' votes that might otherwise go to more extreme parties is something I believe we should be grateful for.

Again, I repeat that the organisations behind the mindset need to be outed, because we clearly had a period where political elites/cliques were exerting great pressure to bring non-democratic changes to society and communities (and yes I realise the irony that "society and community" was an early pet phrase of such people) from behind the political mainstream.

All agreed, in fact this abuse case has now offered a whole new set of reasons why a voter should look for something new. My argument here is that unless the community is publicly seen to be addressing the problem as well, then the voters have even more reason to listen to people who offer to sort out this type of behaviour.

Rotherham has confirmed what many people knew already.

[Digga]

simes43 said:

All agreed, in fact this abuse case has now offered a whole new set of reasons why a voter should look for something new. My argument here is that unless the community is publicly seen to be addressing the problem as well, then the voters have even more reason to listen to people who offer to sort out this type of behaviour.

Rotherham has confirmed what many people knew already.

And worse.

Wasn't so long back I was accused on here of being a tinfoil hatter because of my mistrust of Common Purpose.

[HonestIago]

Digga said:

nd worse.

Wasn't so long back I was accused on here of being a tinfoil hatter because of my mistrust of Common Purpose.

Common Purpose are especially dangerous because they are so under the radar. Their modus operandi is to essentially take over at community level once we reach the "post-democratic" age, which is the goal of the EU. If that doesn't get people worried I don't know what will. I'll happily join you as a tinfoil hatter!

[gpo746]

Meanwhile the real threats are ignored and glossed over. Reassuring to know this stuff is prosecuted though:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershi...

[heebeegeetee]

Interesting little piece on woman's hour this morning about Pakistani comedienne Nadia Manzoor

>>Nadia Manzoor likes to take a light-hearted view of what it is to be young, Muslim, and female in the UK today - from her unique perspective as a British-Pakistani stand-up comedian. In her debut show she explores the challenges and contradictions of growing up as a young woman in a conservative Pakistani family in the midst of more liberal 90's England. Nadia Manzoor joins Jane Garvey to talk about her life as a young British-Pakistani woman, and how her life experiences proved rich material for her show.<<

Can possibly be heard here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04g7r94

There'a also a piece connected to Rotherham but I haven't listened to that.

On today's piece, I raised my eyebrows early on at the suggestion (if I heard right, I could perhaps do with listening again) that what happens in deeply conservative muslim household could happen in any household - that such a restrictive view on women's lives are just as likely to be held anywhere in our society - or to put it another way, eggshells had immediately to be trodden lest anyone should be offended, which imo has led us straight to where we are in our so-called multi-cultural society.

[FiF]

Rotherham council chief executive resigning

PCC Shaun Wright and Social Services head Joyce Thacker still displaying their brass necks. No doubt Crompton will argue it wasn't on his watch.

[Transmitter Man]

Hepper said;

There is no denying that these men are predominantly from one demographic, they are likely poorly formally educated, so their influences are not from mainstream education. They for the most part live within their own. They clearly do not have the same moral compass as others and as a group they have same failures. So it stands to reason their influences must have come from somewhere. Then if you think about it based on the sheer numbers of them that fall from within that one demographic and you consider that they are also disconnected geographically, logic dictates that in some way, shape or form the influences that led them on the path, failed to provide them with the moral compass, or whatever it might be that made them think these acts were acceptable or that these girls as less worthy than others must have come from somewhere. Then in turn that influence or teaching or failure must have been something that was present in all the disconnected places to create the same vile groups in multiple disconnected locations at separate times.
____________________________

I have read your post twice just so I make sure I come up with a concrete answer.

"The teachings of the Prophet Mohammad."

Phil

Edited by Transmitter Man on Monday 8th September 14:03

[si-h]

Not sure if this has been posted before.
In the Liverpool Echo, more gangs.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news...

[Countdown]

Transmitter Man said:

I have read your post twice just so I make sure I come up with a concrete answer.

"The teachings of the Prophet Mohammad."

Phil

Edited by Transmitter Man on Monday 8th September 14:03

If that's the case would you not expect to see similar behaviour in other countries which have muslim populations?