another abuse gang
Discussion
TTwiggy said:
heppers75 said:
TTwiggy said:
He's also in possession of a Y chromosome. Maybe this should be acknowledged as a common factor? 
Absolutely, all common factors should be brought to bear. What you don't do is ignore one because it is unpalatable to others that share it! Afterall I share that common factor and it does not bother me that would be used.
Personally, as a male, I consider it to be crucial to examine whether something in modern 'male culture' has lead to situations like these. It seems disingenuous to demand that, for instance, the Muslim community address this problem without considering that it might be a wider issue.
Because from what I can see, whether it be members of the establishment shagging and murdering rent boys, or celebrities putting their hands down the knickers of anyone they feel like, or Asian/Muslin/Pakistani taxi drivers passing underage girls round like toys, the common factor is that it's men doing this.
However with any data analysis you start to break it down further and you get to the next tier of information, which you indeed broke down somewhat yourself.
The problem arises when you have people not willing to bring some factors into the fray due to their personal connection to that factor as and when you get to that next tier of information.
heppers75 said:
There is possibly some merit in what you say.
However with any data analysis you start to break it down further and you get to the next tier of information, which you indeed broke down somewhat yourself.
The problem arises when you have people not willing to bring some factors into the fray due to their personal connection to that factor as and when you get to that next tier of information.
It's the eternal question of whether correlation is evidence of causation. There are many on this thread who seem 'keen', to say the least, to establish links between Islam and sexual abuse (hence the daft stories about Muhammad and his child bride). However with any data analysis you start to break it down further and you get to the next tier of information, which you indeed broke down somewhat yourself.
The problem arises when you have people not willing to bring some factors into the fray due to their personal connection to that factor as and when you get to that next tier of information.
Maybe there is a link, but I believe that the onus is also on us as men to examine our own attitudes, and those of our peers, as otherwise we are just as guilty of burying our heads in the sand as these 'Muslim leaders' who are apparently required to comment on and curb the perverted desires of their flock.
It appears, if reports are correct, that members of our political and legal establishment enjoyed house parties where equally, if not more, depraved and abhorrent activities occurred. How did the honourable member for 'anytown' broach the subject of child molestation and murder with the High Court Judge?
TTwiggy said:
It appears, if reports are correct, that members of our political and legal establishment enjoyed house parties where equally, if not more, depraved and abhorrent activities occurred. How did the honourable member for 'anytown' broach the subject of child molestation and murder with the High Court Judge?
I don't think there's one of us here not appalled by that fact, but let us not conflate or drift off topic here.There is a significant sub-set and correlation going on here. The only thing that can be done is to get to the bottom of the how and why. Given that the authorities are now on the front foot, we can hope at least for more pro-active policing, but what is not yet being dealt with is the root cause.
I am sure not all muslims knew or would approve of what is going on, but nonetheless Islam is a clear outlier in terms of the profile of offenders in these types of cases and IMHO, until the root of it is dealt with, you will only be reacting to offences, not stopping them. I do not think there is justification within Islam, but at the same time, it does, in certain forms, as practiced in certain parts of the world, have a tendency toward unenlightened attitudes around women and homosexuals and even children, which may be contributory.
Digga said:
I don't think there's one of us here not appalled by that fact, but let us not conflate or drift off topic here.
There is a significant sub-set and correlation going on here. The only thing that can be done is to get to the bottom of the how and why. Given that the authorities are now on the front foot, we can hope at least for more pro-active policing, but what is not yet being dealt with is the root cause.
I am sure not all muslims knew or would approve of what is going on, but nonetheless Islam is a clear outlier in terms of the profile of offenders in these types of cases and IMHO, until the root of it is dealt with, you will only be reacting to offences, not stopping them. I do not think there is justification within Islam, but at the same time, it does, in certain forms, as practiced in certain parts of the world, have a tendency toward unenlightened attitudes around women and homosexuals and even children, which may be contributory.
Islam does hog the headlines, and for all the wrong reasons. That does not help "race" relations - victims are also non offending Muslims + other "Asians". The Muslim community is in a better position to know/influence for we are not taking about 10's, or 100's...it is moreThere is a significant sub-set and correlation going on here. The only thing that can be done is to get to the bottom of the how and why. Given that the authorities are now on the front foot, we can hope at least for more pro-active policing, but what is not yet being dealt with is the root cause.
I am sure not all muslims knew or would approve of what is going on, but nonetheless Islam is a clear outlier in terms of the profile of offenders in these types of cases and IMHO, until the root of it is dealt with, you will only be reacting to offences, not stopping them. I do not think there is justification within Islam, but at the same time, it does, in certain forms, as practiced in certain parts of the world, have a tendency toward unenlightened attitudes around women and homosexuals and even children, which may be contributory.
I wonder if the girls are so available/vulnerable etc why the white cabbies don't feel the need to rape/traffic them?
Every time I read of another case of this in the predominantly Pakistani communities around the world (as it's not a UK only problem) I ask myself how did we allow these sub humans into the West, they can't get away with this is their mother countries one assumes
Every time I read of another case of this in the predominantly Pakistani communities around the world (as it's not a UK only problem) I ask myself how did we allow these sub humans into the West, they can't get away with this is their mother countries one assumes
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Predictable and hackneyed response. For the record, I was doing no such thing. You asked how it was possible for 'Tariq and Mo' to feel able to discuss sexual abuse openly without fear of any consequence. I just wondered how it was also possible for (an assumed) MP and High Court Judge to feel confident enough to have the same or similar conversation.andymc said:
I wonder if the girls are so available/vulnerable etc why the white cabbies don't feel the need to rape/traffic them?
Every time I read of another case of this in the predominantly Pakistani communities around the world (as it's not a UK only problem) I ask myself how did we allow these sub humans into the West, they can't get away with this is their mother countries one assumes
Shariah law in their countries & vigilante action?Every time I read of another case of this in the predominantly Pakistani communities around the world (as it's not a UK only problem) I ask myself how did we allow these sub humans into the West, they can't get away with this is their mother countries one assumes
andymc said:
I ask myself how did we allow these sub humans into the West, they can't get away with this is their mother countries one assumes
People like you make me sick! You should be celebrating the multiculturality of their ethnic, kiddie raping diversity, you racist!It's all our fault for exploiting them 200 years ago, and I feel that I should be personally punished for this.
TTwiggy said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Predictable and hackneyed response. For the record, I was doing no such thing. You asked how it was possible for 'Tariq and Mo' to feel able to discuss sexual abuse openly without fear of any consequence. I just wondered how it was also possible for (an assumed) MP and High Court Judge to feel confident enough to have the same or similar conversation.It would be no different and I would suspect you would say the same if lets say it was Freemasons who were doing this for the most part and all the Freemasons were up in arms on here saying but look at the other groups doing this as well, don't you point the finger at me. You would I am sure rightly see that in the same way as your posts are coming across to many.
I would love a straight answer to this question however - Do you actually accept that the fact these perpetrators of these "gangs" are believers in the same faith and the fact that faith is well documented in some quarters to have some less than modern attitudes to women in general and non believers be any sort of factor at all, or do you simply dismiss it as coincidence?
Really didn't want to get involved in this, but have the contributors to this thread seen 'Femme de la Rue'?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLOi1W9X6z4
Listen to the guy at 10:30 onwards. He explains in a perfectly calm and reasonable manner (and quite eloquently I thought, but my French is crap) why he and his friends behave as they do. Ok, the film's not about rape, but it explains a lot about certain people's attitudes towards women. I think we can all guess his religion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLOi1W9X6z4
Listen to the guy at 10:30 onwards. He explains in a perfectly calm and reasonable manner (and quite eloquently I thought, but my French is crap) why he and his friends behave as they do. Ok, the film's not about rape, but it explains a lot about certain people's attitudes towards women. I think we can all guess his religion.
I'll try to answer a few points raised.
Heppers: It was not my intention to create a diversion. You and I were discussing the possibility that common factor of all these a users being men might be relevant when Tonker steamed in with accusations of diversionary tactics, so I felt compelled to answer.
In answer to your second point, and to a similar one raised by another poster: of course I accept that there is a commonality of religion here and I agree that certain interpretations of that religion are particularly misogynistic. But the reason I use the word interpretation is that I believe that this is largely a cultural rather than religious issue.
My (blonde) girlfriend lives in an area with a lot of middle eastern immigrants. She gets the 'w
e' comments (not when I'm with her) from these people, who may or may not be Muslim. But they certainly don't adhere to many Muslim principles and are probably about as Muslim as I am CofE.
Heppers: It was not my intention to create a diversion. You and I were discussing the possibility that common factor of all these a users being men might be relevant when Tonker steamed in with accusations of diversionary tactics, so I felt compelled to answer.
In answer to your second point, and to a similar one raised by another poster: of course I accept that there is a commonality of religion here and I agree that certain interpretations of that religion are particularly misogynistic. But the reason I use the word interpretation is that I believe that this is largely a cultural rather than religious issue.
My (blonde) girlfriend lives in an area with a lot of middle eastern immigrants. She gets the 'w
e' comments (not when I'm with her) from these people, who may or may not be Muslim. But they certainly don't adhere to many Muslim principles and are probably about as Muslim as I am CofE. TTwiggy said:
I'll try to answer a few points raised.
Heppers: It was not my intention to create a diversion. You and I were discussing the possibility that common factor of all these a users being men might be relevant when Tonker steamed in with accusations of diversionary tactics, so I felt compelled to answer.
In answer to your second point, and to a similar one raised by another poster: of course I accept that there is a commonality of religion here and I agree that certain interpretations of that religion are particularly misogynistic. But the reason I use the word interpretation is that I believe that this is largely a cultural rather than religious issue.
My (blonde) girlfriend lives in an area with a lot of middle eastern immigrants. She gets the 'we' comments (not when I'm with her) from these people, who may or may not be Muslim. But they certainly don't adhere to many Muslim principles and are probably about as Muslim as I am CofE.
I think that is the case chap, certain people with their own interpretations of their beliefs system are at the root of these gangs; I also think we would both be rather naive to not agree that the culture from which they emanate is almostly blindly driven by the religion they follow, in the very real sense for many of these people there really is no separation of culture and religion they are one and the same; it is in many cases due to general illiteracy all they know. Heppers: It was not my intention to create a diversion. You and I were discussing the possibility that common factor of all these a users being men might be relevant when Tonker steamed in with accusations of diversionary tactics, so I felt compelled to answer.
In answer to your second point, and to a similar one raised by another poster: of course I accept that there is a commonality of religion here and I agree that certain interpretations of that religion are particularly misogynistic. But the reason I use the word interpretation is that I believe that this is largely a cultural rather than religious issue.
My (blonde) girlfriend lives in an area with a lot of middle eastern immigrants. She gets the 'w
e' comments (not when I'm with her) from these people, who may or may not be Muslim. But they certainly don't adhere to many Muslim principles and are probably about as Muslim as I am CofE. It is a perversion of that religion of course and abhorrent to the more modern & moderate practitioners, in the same way that the KKK are to the average Sunday churchgoer in Chipping Norton. The issue arrises when you have the moderates essentially denying the possibility of the above because it would reflect badly on them and their more modern and moderate interpretation of that same religion.
andymc said:
Dare I suggest it's not a Muslim thing but a Pakistani thing?
No not a chance..http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/11/...
And it's the Bangladeshi lot doing it in Tower Hamlets.
jogon said:
andymc said:
Dare I suggest it's not a Muslim thing but a Pakistani thing?
No not a chance..http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/11/...
And it's the Bangladeshi lot doing it in Tower Hamlets.
The truth insofar as these "gangs" are concerned is that there really are not that many common factors and the more that come out of the woodwork the more those common factors reduce.
Edited by heppers75 on Thursday 27th November 20:37
Dog Star said:
People like you make me sick! You should be celebrating the multiculturality of their ethnic, kiddie raping diversity, you racist!
It's all our fault for exploiting them 200 years ago, and I feel that I should be personally punished for this.
It's not rape, it's cultural enrichment.It's all our fault for exploiting them 200 years ago, and I feel that I should be personally punished for this.
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