another abuse gang

[fido]

^They've applied the pattern logic for celebrities - not sure why they can't to the same for the groomers? I wonder how many more council leaders will be resigning. I also wonder if political pressure from those within the Labour Party contributed to the hushing up of allegations.

[PRTVR]

magnum555 said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

This post sums up this thread its all about finger pointing and labeling communities. What are you trying to achieve apart from hatred and discrimination?

Your reply sums up the problem, according to the news the reason that the problem went on so long was that everybody was afraid to rock the boat, for fear of being labeled racist and discriminating against the Pakistani community, this has to stop, people who break the law should be treat the same, if people get annoyed ,tough.

Listening to the radio at this afternoon, the presenter commented on a report that 4 white males have been questioned by the police, even though in all reports he had read it was mostly Asian men who were responsible, if true it would appear the police still have a problem.

[TTwiggy]

graphene said:

TTwiggy said:

I think there's definitely something in the 'low socio-economic' angle. While these particular cases involving Pakistani men are both widespread and shocking, there are similar issues among poor black youths. And while it's trickier to find such a distinctive pattern among the poor white (due to their high numbers) there is certainly a very casual attitude to sex among the white poor that leads to multiple births from multiple partners, underage sex, spreading of STDs, and young women who don't really understand the proper definition of rape.

Yep, the poverty- inequality-angle. The enduring rational used to elevate those who misbehave to victims, and represent them as just puppets, entirely manipulated by the environment imposed on them.

You'd deny that there's a link between socio-economic poverty and crime? If we can discuss a link between either the Muslim faith and child rape, or the Pakistani culture and child rape, why not a link between the socio-economic background of the abusers and child rape too?

[JensenA]

TTwiggy said:

PorkInsider said:

You are an apologist.

You are trying to deflect the focus away from the known, narrow cross-section of the population responsible onto a wider demographic.

There is no good reason to do that.

Nice username. What does it refer to?

I'm not apologising for anyone. I'm just trying to point out that as these crimes are committed by people from all walks of life, all religions, all ages, all colours etc, then the only commonality is that all the perpetrators are men. That may not bother you but it bothers me.

Absolute bo11ocks TTwiggy - your attitude is exactly what has caused the problem. The perpetrators are predominantly men of Pakistani origin. Fact. It is not racist to say so, it is definitely PC to the extreme to try and deny it is so.

[TTwiggy]

JensenA said:

TTwiggy said:

PorkInsider said:

You are an apologist.

You are trying to deflect the focus away from the known, narrow cross-section of the population responsible onto a wider demographic.

There is no good reason to do that.

Nice username. What does it refer to?

I'm not apologising for anyone. I'm just trying to point out that as these crimes are committed by people from all walks of life, all religions, all ages, all colours etc, then the only commonality is that all the perpetrators are men. That may not bother you but it bothers me.

Absolute bo11ocks TTwiggy - your attitude is exactly what has caused the problem. The perpetrators are predominantly men of Pakistani origin. Fact. It is not racist to say so, it is definitely PC to the extreme to try and deny it is so.

Point me to where I've accused anybody of racism or even inferred as much. Point me to where I've made excuses for these scum. You won't be able to.

I was simply trying to highlight that this is a problem that should concern all men. And I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself.

[WinstonWolf]

TTwiggy said:

JensenA said:

TTwiggy said:

PorkInsider said:

You are an apologist.

You are trying to deflect the focus away from the known, narrow cross-section of the population responsible onto a wider demographic.

There is no good reason to do that.

Nice username. What does it refer to?

I'm not apologising for anyone. I'm just trying to point out that as these crimes are committed by people from all walks of life, all religions, all ages, all colours etc, then the only commonality is that all the perpetrators are men. That may not bother you but it bothers me.

Absolute bo11ocks TTwiggy - your attitude is exactly what has caused the problem. The perpetrators are predominantly men of Pakistani origin. Fact. It is not racist to say so, it is definitely PC to the extreme to try and deny it is so.

Point me to where I've accused anybody of racism or even inferred as much. Point me to where I've made excuses for these scum. You won't be able to.

I was simply trying to highlight that this is a problem that should concern all men. And I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself.

Perhaps because you're wrong?

THIS problem is a problem amongst Pakistani men as so eloquently proven by Magnum today.

[FredClogs]

There was a fairly long conversation on this on R5 at lunch time, they had a criminologist on who suggested there was a tacit acceptance within Social Services and the care services that these girls who went AFC (Absconded From Care) were "working" in the "sex industry" as prostitutes. For government employees and the police to "accept" that 11 and 12 year old girls are working as prostitutes is unbelievable, literally unbelievable, but it happened

The disproportionate number of offenses committed by Pakistani men only related to the grooming and effective trafficking of these girls, the end "customers" were not disproportionately Pakistani - that statement in no way excuses or condones (I don't know why I feel the need to say that but this is PH you know how you chaps are) but its worth thinking about.

Close your eyes and say the word "pimp" what do you see? Yes that's right you see this guy...



There is whole load of stuff going on here, some very dark cultural influences and to be fair not all of them are Pakistani.

A fixation on the whole Pakistani thing isn't going to help all that much, there are plenty of non Pakistani men who have grown up cash and ethics poor and are willing to traffic women and girls, yes it needs to be discussed and understood (which it won't be here because anyone with any kind of insight or reasonable thing to say has long been scared off) but it's not even half the story.

[irocfan]

TTwiggy said:

You'd deny that there's a link between socio-economic poverty and crime? If we can discuss a link between either the Muslim faith and child rape, or the Pakistani culture and child rape, why not a link between the socio-economic background of the abusers and child rape too?

because of course these guys raped, murdered and robbed their way down south...

[TTwiggy]

WinstonWolf said:

TTwiggy said:

JensenA said:

TTwiggy said:

PorkInsider said:

You are an apologist.

You are trying to deflect the focus away from the known, narrow cross-section of the population responsible onto a wider demographic.

There is no good reason to do that.

Nice username. What does it refer to?

I'm not apologising for anyone. I'm just trying to point out that as these crimes are committed by people from all walks of life, all religions, all ages, all colours etc, then the only commonality is that all the perpetrators are men. That may not bother you but it bothers me.

Absolute bo11ocks TTwiggy - your attitude is exactly what has caused the problem. The perpetrators are predominantly men of Pakistani origin. Fact. It is not racist to say so, it is definitely PC to the extreme to try and deny it is so.

Point me to where I've accused anybody of racism or even inferred as much. Point me to where I've made excuses for these scum. You won't be able to.

I was simply trying to highlight that this is a problem that should concern all men. And I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself.

Perhaps because you're wrong?

THIS problem is a problem amongst Pakistani men as so eloquently proven by Magnum today.

So it's not, in your opinion, a problem that should concern all men? (and for clarity, the 'problem' I'm referring to is sexual abuse of children, by men).

[Asterix]

Quick question from those in the know - What's Rotherham actually like?

Having read the news and threads like this one, I expect it to be an absolute sthole, doom & gloom, massive non-white population but from what I can find it seems quite prosperous with a relatively low Asian immigrant population, compared to the likes of Bradford etc...

I've not spent much time in that part of the world and certainly not for a long while.

[TTwiggy]

irocfan said:

TTwiggy said:

You'd deny that there's a link between socio-economic poverty and crime? If we can discuss a link between either the Muslim faith and child rape, or the Pakistani culture and child rape, why not a link between the socio-economic background of the abusers and child rape too?

because of course these guys raped, murdered and robbed their way down south...

Are they the only people ever affected by poverty?

[WinstonWolf]

TTwiggy said:

WinstonWolf said:

TTwiggy said:

JensenA said:

TTwiggy said:

PorkInsider said:

You are an apologist.

You are trying to deflect the focus away from the known, narrow cross-section of the population responsible onto a wider demographic.

There is no good reason to do that.

Nice username. What does it refer to?

I'm not apologising for anyone. I'm just trying to point out that as these crimes are committed by people from all walks of life, all religions, all ages, all colours etc, then the only commonality is that all the perpetrators are men. That may not bother you but it bothers me.

Absolute bo11ocks TTwiggy - your attitude is exactly what has caused the problem. The perpetrators are predominantly men of Pakistani origin. Fact. It is not racist to say so, it is definitely PC to the extreme to try and deny it is so.

Point me to where I've accused anybody of racism or even inferred as much. Point me to where I've made excuses for these scum. You won't be able to.

I was simply trying to highlight that this is a problem that should concern all men. And I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself.

Perhaps because you're wrong?

THIS problem is a problem amongst Pakistani men as so eloquently proven by Magnum today.

So it's not, in your opinion, a problem that should concern all men? (and for clarity, the 'problem' I'm referring to is sexual abuse of children, by men).

The difference here is if I, and I expect the great majority of posters found out a friend had been doing this they'd be shunned and excommunicated immediately. The attitude amongst this group seems to be "Bagsy I have a turn when you're done".

Do you think Magnum has a point, they're out on the streets, they must be gagging for it, right?

[PorkInsider]

Jesus Christ.

Some of the 'points' being argued by those PHers determined to be seen as 'PC' would put Peter Griffin's level of reasoning to shame.

[TTwiggy]

WinstonWolf said:

The difference here is if I, and I expect the great majority of posters found out a friend had been doing this they'd be shunned and excommunicated immediately. The attitude amongst this group seems to be "Bagsy I have a turn when you're done".

Do you think Magnum has a point, they're out on the streets, they must be gagging for it, right?

I think Magnum had done himself no favours on this thread, and if he is Pakistani, then he's done little to improve the image of that culture. I do understand some of his frustrations however, as it can be hard to remain cogent when you're trying to engage logically and politley with some people while others are just popping up and selectively (mis)quoting something you may have said pages back, just to pick a fight.

For clarity, no, I would never accuse any woman or girl of 'asking for it'. Remember, I'm the resident lefty feminist after all

[FredClogs]

irocfan said:

TTwiggy said:

You'd deny that there's a link between socio-economic poverty and crime? If we can discuss a link between either the Muslim faith and child rape, or the Pakistani culture and child rape, why not a link between the socio-economic background of the abusers and child rape too?

because of course these guys raped, murdered and robbed their way down south...

I wouldn't swap my life for that of a women from a post industrial working class community in the 1930s, infact even in the 2010s... You might want to have a little google about the domestic abuse rates in places like Glasgow and the North East before making daft appeals to a romanticised history you no doubt don't know much about, I very much doubt life during the great depression was all crochet and needlework for the ladies of Tyne Side.

[irocfan]

TTwiggy said:

irocfan said:

TTwiggy said:

You'd deny that there's a link between socio-economic poverty and crime? If we can discuss a link between either the Muslim faith and child rape, or the Pakistani culture and child rape, why not a link between the socio-economic background of the abusers and child rape too?

because of course these guys raped, murdered and robbed their way down south...

Are they the only people ever affected by poverty?

not by a long shot - but I'd venture to suggest that their level of poverty outstripped anything we see in the UK these days. And before you say it, yes there was abuse of women (IIRC giving 'your woman' a 'bit of a slap' was not unusual) and rampant sexism and yet we don't hear too much of their rapacious march towards the rich south with their easy women....

[WinstonWolf]

TTwiggy said:

WinstonWolf said:

The difference here is if I, and I expect the great majority of posters found out a friend had been doing this they'd be shunned and excommunicated immediately. The attitude amongst this group seems to be "Bagsy I have a turn when you're done".

Do you think Magnum has a point, they're out on the streets, they must be gagging for it, right?

I think Magnum had done himself no favours on this thread, and if he is Pakistani, then he's done little to improve the image of that culture. I do understand some of his frustrations however, as it can be hard to remain cogent when you're trying to engage logically and politley with some people while others are just popping up and selectively (mis)quoting something you may have said pages back, just to pick a fight.

For clarity, no, I would never accuse any woman or girl of 'asking for it'. Remember, I'm the resident lefty feminist after all

That's Fred Clogs AND you that I've agreed with today, I must be going soft in my old age.

[rollondeath]

Asterix said:

Quick question from those in the know - What's Rotherham actually like?

Having read the news and threads like this one, I expect it to be an absolute sthole, doom & gloom, massive non-white population but from what I can find it seems quite prosperous with a relatively low Asian immigrant population, compared to the likes of Bradford etc...

I've not spent much time in that part of the world and certainly not for a long while.

Think of the 1800's and you're not far off. S**t hole.

[TLandCruiser]

magnum555 said:

Blame is being put on Pakistani culture, but ask yourself why the majority of the vulnerable girls are white? Is there an a problem within white english culture?

The culture is to blame, and far more people in the community knew this was going on, you can not use that as an excuse and it's disgusting and infuriating which shows even more that it's a cultural issue. You think people let their 11 year old daughter get drugged and raped, who would have been to scared to talk about it? Especially when a girl did talk about what happened she was fking murdered. It's fking disgusting.

[FiF]

rollondeath said:

Asterix said:

Quick question from those in the know - What's Rotherham actually like?

Having read the news and threads like this one, I expect it to be an absolute sthole, doom & gloom, massive non-white population but from what I can find it seems quite prosperous with a relatively low Asian immigrant population, compared to the likes of Bradford etc...

I've not spent much time in that part of the world and certainly not for a long while.

Think of the 1800's and you're not far off. S**t hole.

It's stupid funking inaccurate bks like that which really doesn't help the situation.
It's like a lot of towns there are areas which by most standards are decent and areas that frankly are dives. With pretty much every shade of the spectrum in between.

Of course it depends upon what you call Rotherham, much like that stupid discussion in the London is ace everywhere else is st thread.

Is it just the town centre, or include immediate adjacent areas which are a bit grim tbh. Then if you start to include areas to the south and east and north to the boundary things change.

Again things vary. You will not find enclaves like the Cheshire footballer compound. You also don't find some of the worst areas seen in other places.

So it's much like any other town which grew up with industry where much of it has moved on. It's populated by mostly decent people with decent values trying to succeed in life and live in pleasant as possible surroundings.

I don't and have never lived there but have connections.

Pricks with smart arse inaccurate twaddle like the above need to stfu.