another abuse gang

[heppers75]

magnum555 said:

That's right you stay in your bedroom and keep on being a keyboard warrior

Are you simply going to keep ignoring the facts that have been presented then and just respond to the comments you can try and score points with as opposed to actually debating the issue?

[magnum555]

heppers75 said:

magnum555 said:

That's right you stay in your bedroom and keep on being a keyboard warrior

Are you simply going to keep ignoring the facts that have been presented then and just respond to the comments you can try and score points with as opposed to actually debating the issue?

Don't you think it would be better if we go and speak to the community which we are talking about?

[heppers75]

magnum555 said:

heppers75 said:

magnum555 said:

That's right you stay in your bedroom and keep on being a keyboard warrior

Are you simply going to keep ignoring the facts that have been presented then and just respond to the comments you can try and score points with as opposed to actually debating the issue?

Don't you think it would be better if we go and speak to the community which we are talking about?

So the answer to my question is yes then you are just going to continue to ignore the facts you have been presented with?

[s1962a]

There is an issue with some men in the Pakistani community - I don't know how anyone can dispute that given the facts of this report. Does that mean all men of Pakistani heritage are like this? No. But it is a problem, and these men are over represented in statistics in certain parts of the country.

The following is also true about these men (in my opinion - happy to discuss qualification of opinion if your view differs)

These men:-
- come from tight knit communities where a lot of these people have ancestory from the same villages back in Pakistan
- usually not very well educated backgrounds (ancestors were labourers, landowners, or come from manual labour orientated work in Pakistan)
- very backward mentality when it comes to women, and double standards for women outside of their immediate families
- use Islam as an excuse when it suits them to play the discrimination/race card
- would probably be involved in cash businesses, and possible tax evasion

You are less likely to find the perpretrators from well educated Pakistani families (ancesters were educated in Pakistan, and they brought that ethos over here with them). Probably why the concentrations of these perpretrators are in UK towns that have a less diverse mix of Pakistanis.

[Bill]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The goading is coming from both sides and if it continues the thread will remain open with fewer posters.

[anonymous-user]

magnum555 said:

Don't you think it would be better if we go and speak to the community which we are talking about?

We ARE speaking to a member of that community, right now. He's the one denying there's any issue and twisting the case around to blame the upbringing of the girls. If we can't even have a progressive discussion where an anonymous member of that community recognises the issues being talked about, then why go up there and meet them? If YOU won't even accept there is a problem, then what are the chances of the whole community/taxi fleet (strength in numbers, right?) closing ranks and burying their heads in the sand, as you have been doing over the last couple of days?

The fact the community are NOT recognising it is exactly the reason talking to them is IMO a total waste of time. Arrest, imprison (without noncing segregation), and then if they survive that, deport. Preferably minus testicles, but I accept we're not animals over here.

[heppers75]

I really would like to have some response from those that seem to think there is no issue on the presented facts as sources and facts were asked for it would only seem correct & polite for them to be acknowledged and replied to.

As they have disappeared down the thread here they are again: -

A 2011 study by the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre looked at the 2,379 potential offenders caught grooming girls since 2008. Of 940 suspects whose race could be identified, 26% were Asian, 38% were white and 32% were recorded as unknown. Asians are roughly 7% of the population.

http://www.channel4.com/news/ceop-warns-against-fo...

http://lawandfreedomfoundation.org/wp-content/uplo...

[fido]

heebeegeetee said:

I can understand an objection to the use of the word 'Asians' in this context. It'd be liking describing Albanian criminals as predominantly white or predominantly European.

It's another invention of the PC brigade. No one has a problem with discussing Albanian trafficking, Romanian cashpoint crime or Sri Lankan credit card fraud in the right context. Of course I don't think my Romanian friends are fixing up cashpoints - that would be absurd. But by using the word Asian when it's almost exclusively a Pakistani related issue the system (courts, police, social services) have effectively disguised these horrendous activities.

[NomduJour]

magnum555 said:

Don't you think it would be better if we go and speak to the community which we are talking about?

What exactly do you think the "community" is going to say? Bang to rights guv, or closed shop and bring in more interpreters?

[anonymous-user]

Bill said:

The goading is coming from both sides and if it continues the thread will remain open with fewer posters.

If that's referring to me, then apologies. Although it's probably for the best! My blood boils at this point blank refusal of an issue and maybe not being able to respond would be best, rather than relying on self-censorship. Plus I've never had the hammer wielded in my direction.

[Bill]

heppers75 said:

Bill said:

heppers75 said:

I would say that is fair chap.

Also I am equally sure that for some there could never be a figure, statistic or fact brought to bear that would ever have enough accuracy to convince them the problem exists. Far better just to shout about an ism and or argue persecution, however if you belong to that group there is a fear that exists and an irrational side in some that will put the blinkers on.

It is understandable though. There's a lot of finger pointing going on, and despite the scale of this it is still a small minority of "the community" involved.

I am not saying it not a minority and I don't think anyone else is either from what I have read.

What is being said and what appears to be supported by the facts is that by percentage, statistic or likelihood there is a disproportionate number of these crimes committed by a given demographic. It is pretty simple maths if truth be told it is just being ignored.

The point I'm trying to make is that it's not unreasonable to believe that most of the law abiding majority had little or no idea what was going on and pointing fingers at the community as a whole will get people's backs up.

[Twincharge]

s1962a said:

There is an issue with some men in the Pakistani community - I don't know how anyone can dispute that given the facts of this report. Does that mean all men of Pakistani heritage are like this? No. But it is a problem, and these men are over represented in statistics in certain parts of the country.

The following is also true about these men (in my opinion - happy to discuss qualification of opinion if your view differs)

These men:-
- come from tight knit communities where a lot of these people have ancestory from the same villages back in Pakistan
- usually not very well educated backgrounds (ancestors were labourers, landowners, or come from manual labour orientated work in Pakistan)
- very backward mentality when it comes to women, and double standards for women outside of their immediate families
- use Islam as an excuse when it suits them to play the discrimination/race card
- would probably be involved in cash businesses, and possible tax evasion

You are less likely to find the perpretrators from well educated Pakistani families (ancesters were educated in Pakistan, and they brought that ethos over here with them). Probably why the concentrations of these perpretrators are in UK towns that have a less diverse mix of Pakistanis.

Holy cow, you got it down to a tee, impressive. Don't forget to include;

- married to a cousin recently imported from Pakistan, who cannot speak English and has no ability to discipline/educate kids.

[NomduJour]

Bill said:

it's not unreasonable to believe that most of the law abiding majority had little or no idea what was going on and pointing fingers at the community as a whole will get people's backs up.

Suspect that might be a rather naive assumption viewed from a very different standpoint.

Inevitable that an awful lot of blind eyes have been turned.

[heppers75]

Bill said:

heppers75 said:

Bill said:

heppers75 said:

I would say that is fair chap.

Also I am equally sure that for some there could never be a figure, statistic or fact brought to bear that would ever have enough accuracy to convince them the problem exists. Far better just to shout about an ism and or argue persecution, however if you belong to that group there is a fear that exists and an irrational side in some that will put the blinkers on.

It is understandable though. There's a lot of finger pointing going on, and despite the scale of this it is still a small minority of "the community" involved.

I am not saying it not a minority and I don't think anyone else is either from what I have read.

What is being said and what appears to be supported by the facts is that by percentage, statistic or likelihood there is a disproportionate number of these crimes committed by a given demographic. It is pretty simple maths if truth be told it is just being ignored.

The point I'm trying to make is that it's not unreasonable to believe that most of the law abiding majority had little or no idea what was going on and pointing fingers at the community as a whole will get people's backs up.

I have to be honest Bill I and I do not believe others are pointing a finger at an 'entire' community at all.

What is being stated is that there is clearly an issue within certain communities as the statistics are showing us such, is that right or wrong and/or true or false?

[s1962a]

Twincharge said:

s1962a said:

There is an issue with some men in the Pakistani community - I don't know how anyone can dispute that given the facts of this report. Does that mean all men of Pakistani heritage are like this? No. But it is a problem, and these men are over represented in statistics in certain parts of the country.

The following is also true about these men (in my opinion - happy to discuss qualification of opinion if your view differs)

These men:-
- come from tight knit communities where a lot of these people have ancestory from the same villages back in Pakistan
- usually not very well educated backgrounds (ancestors were labourers, landowners, or come from manual labour orientated work in Pakistan)
- very backward mentality when it comes to women, and double standards for women outside of their immediate families
- use Islam as an excuse when it suits them to play the discrimination/race card
- would probably be involved in cash businesses, and possible tax evasion

You are less likely to find the perpretrators from well educated Pakistani families (ancesters were educated in Pakistan, and they brought that ethos over here with them). Probably why the concentrations of these perpretrators are in UK towns that have a less diverse mix of Pakistanis.

Holy cow, you got it down to a tee, impressive. Don't forget to include;

- married to a cousin recently imported from Pakistan, who cannot speak English and has no ability to discipline/educate kids.

Yes, good point. That should be added too.

[Twincharge]

Bill said:

The point I'm trying to make is that it's not unreasonable to believe that most of the law abiding majority had little or no idea what was going on and pointing fingers at the community as a whole will get people's backs up.

I agree with this point, however ignorance is not an excuse. The community has a moral responsibility and should be held accountable. After all, it could be anyone's child.

[s1962a]

heppers75 said:

What is being stated is that there is clearly an issue within certain communities as the statistics are showing us such, is that right or wrong and/or true or false?

I posted some opinions regarding this scum. As you mention it's an issue within certain parts of the Pakistani community - so how do we tackle that?

[magnum555]

heppers75 said:

Bill said:

heppers75 said:

Bill said:

heppers75 said:

I would say that is fair chap.

Also I am equally sure that for some there could never be a figure, statistic or fact brought to bear that would ever have enough accuracy to convince them the problem exists. Far better just to shout about an ism and or argue persecution, however if you belong to that group there is a fear that exists and an irrational side in some that will put the blinkers on.

It is understandable though. There's a lot of finger pointing going on, and despite the scale of this it is still a small minority of "the community" involved.

I am not saying it not a minority and I don't think anyone else is either from what I have read.

What is being said and what appears to be supported by the facts is that by percentage, statistic or likelihood there is a disproportionate number of these crimes committed by a given demographic. It is pretty simple maths if truth be told it is just being ignored.

The point I'm trying to make is that it's not unreasonable to believe that most of the law abiding majority had little or no idea what was going on and pointing fingers at the community as a whole will get people's backs up.

I have to be honest Bill I and I do not believe others are pointing a finger at an 'entire' community at all.

What is being stated is that there is clearly an issue within certain communities as the statistics are showing us such, is that right or wrong and/or true or false?

You know that's rubbish you and others have clearly said the whole community is to blame as they must have known about these abuses.

[Oakey]

magnum555 said:

Another Keyboard warrior, that's right you sit in your bedroom spouting rubbish on the internet.

There's no bigger oxymoron than someone posting on the internet and calling someone else on the internet a 'keyboard warrior'.

Why don't you post up your hardman credentials?

[heppers75]

s1962a said:

heppers75 said:

What is being stated is that there is clearly an issue within certain communities as the statistics are showing us such, is that right or wrong and/or true or false?

I posted some opinions regarding this scum. As you mention it's an issue within certain parts of the Pakistani community - so how do we tackle that?

I think personally that if it were acknowledged by whichever community it might be then they would probably be quite effective at being a greater part of the solution.

Right now it does smack somewhat of almost the addict mentality who is in denial and until that first step of acknowledgment is taken it will be a very painful uphill battle.