another abuse gang
Discussion
magnum555 said:
andymadmak said:
OpulentBob said:
Who in their right mind wants to sit with defenders of child abuse (who knows, maybe even the perpetrators of it) and "discuss" the issues aka listen to why it's the white slag b
hes fault?
Somebody has to talk to these people. Somebody has to keep repeating the basic truths until they start to listen. Until we get these people to understand then the potential for the problem to remain well into the future is there. hes fault?Magnum and his mates are either a part of the problem (directly or indirectly) or they can maybe form part of the solution. Thousands of kids is worth making the effort for. If talking fails then it fails, but we have to make the effort do we not? Otherwise we're just hypocrites imho.
I'll willingly get my hands in the muck if it saves a few kids
Seriously though Magnum, I'm willing to talk to you and any number of your mates/colleagues/community (whatever floats your boat and you don't see as an insult) Your suggestion was that we should talk. I've accepted. Taslking might help to provide some sort of solution in some small way to this PARTICULAR type of abuse problem.
I'm failing to understand why you cannot see that by criticising some members of a community I am not criticising ALL members of that community...
magnum555 said:
heppers75 said:
magnum555 said:
I'm not defending anyone.
You are so passionate about this problem within a single community why dont we go and discuss these issues? Why are you shying away?
Instead you have only replied to my questions by "calling me out" like some sort of primary school child who can't construct an argument so reverts to calling for a fight in the playground.
magnum555 said:
OpulentBob said:
1400 girls were abused in Rotherham mainly by groups of Pakistani-origin men.
This is undisputable fact.
Apologists and defenders are as bad as the rapists. In fact, I'd go so far as to say apologists must have had a finger in that pie, because no sane and rational human being is/can be/would be sticking up for or diverting attention from child abusers. And those who blame the parents of the victims are just as bad, because they refuse to see that a crime has been committed even when people have been found guilty and sent to prison.
When are we meeting in Rotherham to discuss this?This is undisputable fact.
Apologists and defenders are as bad as the rapists. In fact, I'd go so far as to say apologists must have had a finger in that pie, because no sane and rational human being is/can be/would be sticking up for or diverting attention from child abusers. And those who blame the parents of the victims are just as bad, because they refuse to see that a crime has been committed even when people have been found guilty and sent to prison.
I'm not calling you a perpetrator but your OTT defence of them and the constant 'offering out' of people does nothing for you or your community IMO.
heppers75 said:
magnum555 said:
heppers75 said:
magnum555 said:
I'm not defending anyone.
You are so passionate about this problem within a single community why dont we go and discuss these issues? Why are you shying away?
Instead you have only replied to my questions by "calling me out" like some sort of primary school child who can't construct an argument so reverts to calling for a fight in the playground.
andymadmak said:
magnum555 said:
andymadmak said:
OpulentBob said:
Who in their right mind wants to sit with defenders of child abuse (who knows, maybe even the perpetrators of it) and "discuss" the issues aka listen to why it's the white slag bhes fault?
Somebody has to talk to these people. Somebody has to keep repeating the basic truths until they start to listen. Until we get these people to understand then the potential for the problem to remain well into the future is there. hes fault?Magnum and his mates are either a part of the problem (directly or indirectly) or they can maybe form part of the solution. Thousands of kids is worth making the effort for. If talking fails then it fails, but we have to make the effort do we not? Otherwise we're just hypocrites imho.
I'll willingly get my hands in the muck if it saves a few kids
Seriously though Magnum, I'm willing to talk to you and any number of your mates/colleagues/community (whatever floats your boat and you don't see as an insult) Your suggestion was that we should talk. I've accepted. Taslking might help to provide some sort of solution in some small way to this PARTICULAR type of abuse problem.
I'm failing to understand why you cannot see that by criticising some members of a community I am not criticising ALL members of that community...
Fotic said:
magnum555 said:
OpulentBob said:
1400 girls were abused in Rotherham mainly by groups of Pakistani-origin men.
This is undisputable fact.
Apologists and defenders are as bad as the rapists. In fact, I'd go so far as to say apologists must have had a finger in that pie, because no sane and rational human being is/can be/would be sticking up for or diverting attention from child abusers. And those who blame the parents of the victims are just as bad, because they refuse to see that a crime has been committed even when people have been found guilty and sent to prison.
When are we meeting in Rotherham to discuss this?This is undisputable fact.
Apologists and defenders are as bad as the rapists. In fact, I'd go so far as to say apologists must have had a finger in that pie, because no sane and rational human being is/can be/would be sticking up for or diverting attention from child abusers. And those who blame the parents of the victims are just as bad, because they refuse to see that a crime has been committed even when people have been found guilty and sent to prison.
I'm not calling you a perpetrator but your OTT defence of them and the constant 'offering out' of people does nothing for you or your community IMO.
Im not defending anyone but the continually targeting and isolation of a community will achieve nothing but problems.
Countdown said:
Not wishing to answer on behalf of TwinCharge but in my opinion....
It depends partly on the generation and partly on the social/educational background. The older generation definitely see the man as being "in charge of the household", "wearing the trousers" etc. I don't think this is massively different to any other UK community from a few decades ago. Perhaps the difference is that the indigenous community has had its views changed as a result of the various equal opportunities initiatives and laws whereas the immigrant community lags a couple of generations behind. The younger generation (especially the educated / professional types) see women as equals and marriage as more of a partnership.
TL;DR - In my opinion older Pakistani men tend to be more chauvinistic than younger ones and those with a lower educational attainment tend to be more chauvinistic than those from a professional background.
I fully endorse this post.It depends partly on the generation and partly on the social/educational background. The older generation definitely see the man as being "in charge of the household", "wearing the trousers" etc. I don't think this is massively different to any other UK community from a few decades ago. Perhaps the difference is that the indigenous community has had its views changed as a result of the various equal opportunities initiatives and laws whereas the immigrant community lags a couple of generations behind. The younger generation (especially the educated / professional types) see women as equals and marriage as more of a partnership.
TL;DR - In my opinion older Pakistani men tend to be more chauvinistic than younger ones and those with a lower educational attainment tend to be more chauvinistic than those from a professional background.
Fotic said:
magnum555 said:
OpulentBob said:
1400 girls were abused in Rotherham mainly by groups of Pakistani-origin men.
This is undisputable fact.
Apologists and defenders are as bad as the rapists. In fact, I'd go so far as to say apologists must have had a finger in that pie, because no sane and rational human being is/can be/would be sticking up for or diverting attention from child abusers. And those who blame the parents of the victims are just as bad, because they refuse to see that a crime has been committed even when people have been found guilty and sent to prison.
When are we meeting in Rotherham to discuss this?This is undisputable fact.
Apologists and defenders are as bad as the rapists. In fact, I'd go so far as to say apologists must have had a finger in that pie, because no sane and rational human being is/can be/would be sticking up for or diverting attention from child abusers. And those who blame the parents of the victims are just as bad, because they refuse to see that a crime has been committed even when people have been found guilty and sent to prison.
I'm not calling you a perpetrator but your OTT defence of them and the constant 'offering out' of people does nothing for you or your community IMO.
magnum555 said:
This is the only way forward to discuss directly with the communities and not label communities for crimes that are committed by a small minority.
Im not defending anyone but the continually targeting and isolation of a community will achieve nothing but problems.
So you do acknowledge that there is a problem in your community as well as others then and it needs to be addressed?Im not defending anyone but the continually targeting and isolation of a community will achieve nothing but problems.
heppers75 said:
magnum555 said:
This is the only way forward to discuss directly with the communities and not label communities for crimes that are committed by a small minority.
Im not defending anyone but the continually targeting and isolation of a community will achieve nothing but problems.
So you do acknowledge that their is a problem in your community as well as others then and it needs to be addressed?Im not defending anyone but the continually targeting and isolation of a community will achieve nothing but problems.
Countdown said:
From what little I know of the Pakistani "territories" the perverts that abused these girls wouldn't have done it in Pakistan as they would have probably been shot and/or something similar done to their mothers / sisters. These girls appear to have had nobody protecting them.
Agreed about the 1st bit. I suspect the same would happen if white men had abused as many young Pakistani girls in the UK.So are you saying the fault is the absence of guardians for the young children ( as some are, but want to clarify your stance), and the perpetrators were merely passengers?
magnum555 said:
FredClogs said:
heppers75 said:
I really would like to have some response from those that seem to think there is no issue on the presented facts as sources and facts were asked for it would only seem correct & polite for them to be acknowledged and replied to.
As they have disappeared down the thread here they are again: -
A 2011 study by the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre looked at the 2,379 potential offenders caught grooming girls since 2008. Of 940 suspects whose race could be identified, 26% were Asian, 38% were white and 32% were recorded as unknown. Asians are roughly 7% of the population.
http://www.channel4.com/news/ceop-warns-against-fo...
http://lawandfreedomfoundation.org/wp-content/uplo...
See what I said earlier, you can replace the term grooming with the term pimping and all of a sudden we all know where we are and what the forces and motives at work are - and they're nothing to do with collective cultural history or heritage and more to do with socio economics and general misogyny which no "community" by any means can claim (or be labelled) to have sole preserve of. As they have disappeared down the thread here they are again: -
A 2011 study by the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre looked at the 2,379 potential offenders caught grooming girls since 2008. Of 940 suspects whose race could be identified, 26% were Asian, 38% were white and 32% were recorded as unknown. Asians are roughly 7% of the population.
http://www.channel4.com/news/ceop-warns-against-fo...
http://lawandfreedomfoundation.org/wp-content/uplo...
I'm realy not sure what you are applauding mate. According to the article 26% of offenders come from a group that represents 7% of the population; half that (assuming Pakistani women have not been involved in these crimes) that that's well over a quarter of the offenses have been committed by offenders from within a group that makes up little more than 3% of the population. magnum555 said:
heppers75 said:
magnum555 said:
This is the only way forward to discuss directly with the communities and not label communities for crimes that are committed by a small minority.
Im not defending anyone but the continually targeting and isolation of a community will achieve nothing but problems.
So you do acknowledge that their is a problem in your community as well as others then and it needs to be addressed?Im not defending anyone but the continually targeting and isolation of a community will achieve nothing but problems.
I am assuming that as your somewhat irrational at times defence of the issue leads to the logical conclusion you are a member of one of the communities being focused on as having this issue.
Twincharge said:
It was a genuine question, here's another from the same collection;
"What is the attitude of Black men towards women?"
Not a fair analogy because there would be nothing to promote the question."What is the attitude of Black men towards women?"
A more relevant "from the same collection" would be "Generally do black males commit proportionally more violent crime because I keep reading many articles suggesting so"? which I see as a completely valid question.
Similarly people keep reading of mass abuse of women by Pakistani males and it is perfectly valid to question it. And if you answered from a perspective of knowledge instead of trying to quash the question then either a)people would conclude in the presence of fact that it was a problem minority and irrelevant worrying about it or b)something does indeed need to be educated into certain sections because it is a large scale problem.
To ask a different question:
Do you consider the large scale raping that took place in Rotherham to be caused by a tiny problem minority of the local muslim population thus it is not worth putting any thought into it as they are now arrested and dealt with?
Twincharge said:
heppers75 said:
So you do acknowledge that there is a problem in your community as well as others then and it needs to be addressed?
Not all Pakistani men live in segregated communities, I'm quite sure of that.Heppers:- thought you weren't generalising?
s1962a said:
Twincharge said:
heppers75 said:
So you do acknowledge that there is a problem in your community as well as others then and it needs to be addressed?
Not all Pakistani men live in segregated communities, I'm quite sure of that.Heppers:- thought you weren't generalising?
I am working on the facts as I have researched them simple as.
Those facts tell me from CEOP that at the very least 26% of these crimes is committed by 7% of the population by demographic. Sorry I don't care what way you want to try and obfuscate that it needs addressing.
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