another abuse gang
Discussion
heppers75 said:
s1962a said:
heppers75 said:
s1962a said:
Eh? Of course it needs addressing, It's a serious problem. I thought you had agreed previously that it's an issue for the local Pakistani communities of the towns concerned, not of the Pakistani population as a whole. Or is that not the case?
I actually think it is a serious enough issue that it needs to be dealt with on as many fronts as possible that fall within the law of the land.I can be certain of one thing though, it can't be addressed until it is properly acknowledged!
To move forward with this though, we need to engage the actual communities involved and spread awareness of this. Also the police and social services really need to get their finger out. Why the hell did they not do anything when they clearly knew what was going on? PC my arse - it is irrelevant, unless they did it for their own political reasons.
That makes it a very very difficult problem to tackle, if only there was as much acceptance and enlightenment on the issue at hand as you and you immediate community seem to have.
As for the PC issue, if they went to people in those communities - say the elders etc and asked them if there were any objections to the police investigating cases (not that they should need permission, but assuming they wanted the softly softly approach), would there be a problem? I would suspect no one would stand in their way. I suspect the PC issue came about to do with votes, and not people in the 'community' blocking the police/social services.
Genuinely interested in your examples of people who refuse to acknowledge this issue.
Bill said:
heppers75 said:
So you disagree with the CEOP report then? Might I ask why?
This would be the CEOP report that says there isn't enough data to draw any conclusions about ethnicity?magnum555 said:
andymadmak said:
magnum555 said:
andymadmak said:
OpulentBob said:
Who in their right mind wants to sit with defenders of child abuse (who knows, maybe even the perpetrators of it) and "discuss" the issues aka listen to why it's the white slag b
hes fault?
Somebody has to talk to these people. Somebody has to keep repeating the basic truths until they start to listen. Until we get these people to understand then the potential for the problem to remain well into the future is there. hes fault?Magnum and his mates are either a part of the problem (directly or indirectly) or they can maybe form part of the solution. Thousands of kids is worth making the effort for. If talking fails then it fails, but we have to make the effort do we not? Otherwise we're just hypocrites imho.
I'll willingly get my hands in the muck if it saves a few kids
Seriously though Magnum, I'm willing to talk to you and any number of your mates/colleagues/community (whatever floats your boat and you don't see as an insult) Your suggestion was that we should talk. I've accepted. Taslking might help to provide some sort of solution in some small way to this PARTICULAR type of abuse problem.
I'm failing to understand why you cannot see that by criticising some members of a community I am not criticising ALL members of that community...
Why the insistence on going to Rotherham?
If, as you seem to be insinuating, you have the whole community behind you why not invite them here to discuss the problem?
s1962a said:
heppers75 said:
s1962a said:
heppers75 said:
s1962a said:
Eh? Of course it needs addressing, It's a serious problem. I thought you had agreed previously that it's an issue for the local Pakistani communities of the towns concerned, not of the Pakistani population as a whole. Or is that not the case?
I actually think it is a serious enough issue that it needs to be dealt with on as many fronts as possible that fall within the law of the land.I can be certain of one thing though, it can't be addressed until it is properly acknowledged!
To move forward with this though, we need to engage the actual communities involved and spread awareness of this. Also the police and social services really need to get their finger out. Why the hell did they not do anything when they clearly knew what was going on? PC my arse - it is irrelevant, unless they did it for their own political reasons.
That makes it a very very difficult problem to tackle, if only there was as much acceptance and enlightenment on the issue at hand as you and you immediate community seem to have.
As for the PC issue, if they went to people in those communities - say the elders etc and asked them if there were any objections to the police investigating cases (not that they should need permission, but assuming they wanted the softly softly approach), would there be a problem? I would suspect no one would stand in their way. I suspect the PC issue came about to do with votes, and not people in the 'community' blocking the police/social services.
Genuinely interested in your examples of people who refuse to acknowledge this issue.
Mohammed Shafiq, the Muslim commentator and chief executive of the Rochdale-based Ramadhan Foundation, said that his comments could be seen as “hypocritical” because Mr Straw had been in government himself for many years.
But he added: “I think that an element of what he said is right – there are some people in my community, the Pakistani community, the elders, who think that the best thing to do is just ignore it and assume it all a BNP and EDL conspiracy.
“I think that is really dangerous, it gives oxygen to the far right.”
Somebody asked earlier about non-white victims in Rotherham. Whilst reading the report, this was said about the only non-white victims I've so far seen mentioned;
"5.34 Children L and M (2012) were two young people from a minority ethnic community. They were part of a group of children who were at risk of sexual exploitation, investigated by the Police as part of Operation Carrington. A number of children at the same school were reported to be getting into cars with strangers, and getting paid in return for performing sex acts. Child L and Child M had frequent missing episodes and their families struggled to report them missing. This was partly because of language difficulties, but also because of cultural factors. The two children were at high risk of exploitation. The CSE team worked hard to engage with these young people and their families, to communicate the risks of sexual exploitation and provide them with education through group work and on a one to one basis. These two cases highlight the extreme difficulty of supporting children and their families when there are major language and cultural barriers, as a result of which neither the child nor parent is willing to disclose what is happening. The Police and social care workers in the CSE team were acutely aware of these difficulties and worked hard to overcome them."
The whole of section 5 is a review of the case documents they read to assess the situation. It makes unpleasant reading and it's clear the five men so far convicted are but the tip of the iceberg.
Also, the figure of 1400 victims is a conservative number - they will probably never know how many suffered. Needless to say, the damage done to these young people may well manifest itself in future behaviours that might be described as sub-optimal (at best).
The attitude of the PCC plonker is typical of the culture he has been immersed in for the last two decades - safe Labour appointees passing jobs and pensions to likeminded cronies regardless of whether it suits the hapless residents.
It's a filthy business and a stain on the nation state.
I recommend you download and read the report (it's only 159 pages) then go and cuddle your loved one's and be thankful you know where they are.
"5.34 Children L and M (2012) were two young people from a minority ethnic community. They were part of a group of children who were at risk of sexual exploitation, investigated by the Police as part of Operation Carrington. A number of children at the same school were reported to be getting into cars with strangers, and getting paid in return for performing sex acts. Child L and Child M had frequent missing episodes and their families struggled to report them missing. This was partly because of language difficulties, but also because of cultural factors. The two children were at high risk of exploitation. The CSE team worked hard to engage with these young people and their families, to communicate the risks of sexual exploitation and provide them with education through group work and on a one to one basis. These two cases highlight the extreme difficulty of supporting children and their families when there are major language and cultural barriers, as a result of which neither the child nor parent is willing to disclose what is happening. The Police and social care workers in the CSE team were acutely aware of these difficulties and worked hard to overcome them."
The whole of section 5 is a review of the case documents they read to assess the situation. It makes unpleasant reading and it's clear the five men so far convicted are but the tip of the iceberg.
Also, the figure of 1400 victims is a conservative number - they will probably never know how many suffered. Needless to say, the damage done to these young people may well manifest itself in future behaviours that might be described as sub-optimal (at best).
The attitude of the PCC plonker is typical of the culture he has been immersed in for the last two decades - safe Labour appointees passing jobs and pensions to likeminded cronies regardless of whether it suits the hapless residents.
It's a filthy business and a stain on the nation state.
I recommend you download and read the report (it's only 159 pages) then go and cuddle your loved one's and be thankful you know where they are.
heppers75 said:
s1962a said:
heppers75 said:
s1962a said:
heppers75 said:
s1962a said:
Eh? Of course it needs addressing, It's a serious problem. I thought you had agreed previously that it's an issue for the local Pakistani communities of the towns concerned, not of the Pakistani population as a whole. Or is that not the case?
I actually think it is a serious enough issue that it needs to be dealt with on as many fronts as possible that fall within the law of the land.I can be certain of one thing though, it can't be addressed until it is properly acknowledged!
To move forward with this though, we need to engage the actual communities involved and spread awareness of this. Also the police and social services really need to get their finger out. Why the hell did they not do anything when they clearly knew what was going on? PC my arse - it is irrelevant, unless they did it for their own political reasons.
That makes it a very very difficult problem to tackle, if only there was as much acceptance and enlightenment on the issue at hand as you and you immediate community seem to have.
As for the PC issue, if they went to people in those communities - say the elders etc and asked them if there were any objections to the police investigating cases (not that they should need permission, but assuming they wanted the softly softly approach), would there be a problem? I would suspect no one would stand in their way. I suspect the PC issue came about to do with votes, and not people in the 'community' blocking the police/social services.
Genuinely interested in your examples of people who refuse to acknowledge this issue.
Mohammed Shafiq, the Muslim commentator and chief executive of the Rochdale-based Ramadhan Foundation, said that his comments could be seen as “hypocritical” because Mr Straw had been in government himself for many years.
But he added: “I think that an element of what he said is right – there are some people in my community, the Pakistani community, the elders, who think that the best thing to do is just ignore it and assume it all a BNP and EDL conspiracy.
“I think that is really dangerous, it gives oxygen to the far right.”
Bill said:
I think this is being lost in the community debate, no matter who in the wider Pakistani community knew or suspected anything there are a number of people who were in a position to do something about this over ten years ago and many times since and didn't.
IMO much of the anger in this thread is being directed in entirely the wrong direction.
Focus on the administrators, the rest were mere passengers?IMO much of the anger in this thread is being directed in entirely the wrong direction.
Plenty of incompetence for sure, and lots of criminality - including aiding/abetting/keeping quiet.
heppers75 said:
But he added: “I think that an element of what he said is right – there are some people in my community, the Pakistani community, the elders, who think that the best thing to do is just ignore it and assume it all a BNP and EDL conspiracy.
This is exactly what is happening, and this is the reason why it is allowed to go on. The communities need to acknowledge the problem and tackle it.heppers75 said:
From an article in the Telegraph..
Mohammed Shafiq, the Muslim commentator and chief executive of the Rochdale-based Ramadhan Foundation, said that his comments could be seen as “hypocritical” because Mr Straw had been in government himself for many years.
But he added: “I think that an element of what he said is right – there are some people in my community, the Pakistani community, the elders, who think that the best thing to do is just ignore it and assume it all a BNP and EDL conspiracy.
“I think that is really dangerous, it gives oxygen to the far right.”
Mohammed Shafiq is a moron. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6XKR7gMfxsMohammed Shafiq, the Muslim commentator and chief executive of the Rochdale-based Ramadhan Foundation, said that his comments could be seen as “hypocritical” because Mr Straw had been in government himself for many years.
But he added: “I think that an element of what he said is right – there are some people in my community, the Pakistani community, the elders, who think that the best thing to do is just ignore it and assume it all a BNP and EDL conspiracy.
“I think that is really dangerous, it gives oxygen to the far right.”
Twincharge said:
heppers75 said:
But he added: “I think that an element of what he said is right – there are some people in my community, the Pakistani community, the elders, who think that the best thing to do is just ignore it and assume it all a BNP and EDL conspiracy.
This is exactly what is happening, and this is the reason why it is allowed to go on. The communities need to acknowledge the problem and tackle it.the peeps of the CSE have my full admiration, I must admit that I could not do this job regardless of pay. I rather suspect that I'd find myself up in front of the beak in very short order, without wishing to come across all Deathwish/Falling Down my inclination would be 'deal within things'. Having to sit down and talk to some of these creatures would turn my stomach and give me nightmares
Twincharge said:
s1962a said:
UKIP, interesting.s1962a said:
Twincharge said:
heppers75 said:
But he added: “I think that an element of what he said is right – there are some people in my community, the Pakistani community, the elders, who think that the best thing to do is just ignore it and assume it all a BNP and EDL conspiracy.
This is exactly what is happening, and this is the reason why it is allowed to go on. The communities need to acknowledge the problem and tackle it.Amen.
Twincharge said:
s1962a said:
UKIP, interesting. Amjad Bashir said:
I am proud of my Pakistani heritage, proud of being a Yorkshireman and proud of being an MEP. But today I am ashamed and my whole community of proud Pakistani descent is ashamed of these young men who have behaved so appallingly against some of the most vulnerable people in our society.
My father came to this country in the 1950's and I followed in the early 60's and we made our best efforts to fit in and have always been proud to be here and take a full part in Britain. My father was a mill worker but always dressed in Western clothes and wore a shirt and tie at weekends and the next generation did the same. He did this out of a desire to prove that he, as an immigrant, wished to integrate and show it publicly...
I have younger relatives and friends, and it breaks my heart that that is how people look at them as they walk down the street.
I think the comments on integration are very telling - this is very distinct from the mindsets prevalent with other immigrants, not only from Pakistan and IMHO is crucial in the success of immigration in general.My father came to this country in the 1950's and I followed in the early 60's and we made our best efforts to fit in and have always been proud to be here and take a full part in Britain. My father was a mill worker but always dressed in Western clothes and wore a shirt and tie at weekends and the next generation did the same. He did this out of a desire to prove that he, as an immigrant, wished to integrate and show it publicly...
I have younger relatives and friends, and it breaks my heart that that is how people look at them as they walk down the street.
On his latter point I can sympathise, I have very dear friends who are Indian (non-mulsim) who I fear could be wrongly targeted by vigilantes if the wider cultural issues around not only this, but immigration in general, are not properly addressed. A full and proper discussion can only reduce the prejudices and ignorance of those who merely see 'immigrants' or those of different races or religions to their own as the problem.
MrCarPark said:
s1962a said:
Twincharge said:
heppers75 said:
But he added: “I think that an element of what he said is right – there are some people in my community, the Pakistani community, the elders, who think that the best thing to do is just ignore it and assume it all a BNP and EDL conspiracy.
This is exactly what is happening, and this is the reason why it is allowed to go on. The communities need to acknowledge the problem and tackle it.Amen.
Twincharge said:
Pakistan? I guess it is the same as every other county which suffers from poor economics and extreme poverty.
No, it goes beyond that. magnum555 said:
What are the territories in Pakistan like?
About as different from ours as is possible to be.Do some reading, try Malala's book - I was hoping it would contain more about Birmingham but it is predominately about Pakistan/Swat valley, and I think it's when you read just an ordinary account of daily life that you realise how bad and how ridiculous the situation out there is.
They are so totally wrapped up in religion and tradition, and controlled so strongly by such stupid people, that you realise they are always going to be poor. The rates of illiteracy is so high and child marriage is regarded as normal.
The great majority of people brought up into that culture are not going to change, and they are absolutely not going to assimilate into a culture like ours.
Mermaid said:
Countdown said:
From what little I know of the Pakistani "territories" the perverts that abused these girls wouldn't have done it in Pakistan as they would have probably been shot and/or something similar done to their mothers / sisters. These girls appear to have had nobody protecting them.
Agreed about the 1st bit. I suspect the same would happen if white men had abused as many young Pakistani girls in the UK.So are you saying the fault is the absence of guardians for the young children ( as some are, but want to clarify your stance), and the perpetrators were merely passengers?
To add - I doubt it made any difference to these vermin that the girls were white, asian, black etc. They would have taken whatever they could.
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