Interesting option for UK debt
Discussion
zcacogp said:
It is an interesting idea, and one I have mulled over occasionally.
It's interesting to think that certain members of the population would be able to not pay any tax, of any kind (which is the only way it could work.) No more VAT, not more fuel duty, no more airport tax, no more alcohol tax. The world would look like a much cheaper place, for sure ...
Oli.
If I could give the Government 100k in return for never having to pay any tax ever again, I'd bite their hand off. Where do I sign up?It's interesting to think that certain members of the population would be able to not pay any tax, of any kind (which is the only way it could work.) No more VAT, not more fuel duty, no more airport tax, no more alcohol tax. The world would look like a much cheaper place, for sure ...
Oli.
Sorry, but this just wouldn't work. Remember that 90% of all income tax recepits are paid by the top 50% of earners. So if you're plan was put into action there would be a massive drop in tax revenue for the government. Therefore to pay doctors, teachers, police armed forces etc. they would have to borrow lots of money. And funnily enough in a few years time we'd be exactly where we started again with a massive national debt and no plausible means of paying it off.
That must have been some decent scotch.
Hows about this sober option.
Every country in the world is in debt ok the Arab's may not be but most are hocked up to the eyeballs so we all call it quits and return back to everyone oweing nothing. Afterall its not real money its just didgits on a piece of paper
Hows about this sober option.
Every country in the world is in debt ok the Arab's may not be but most are hocked up to the eyeballs so we all call it quits and return back to everyone oweing nothing. Afterall its not real money its just didgits on a piece of paper
JDRoest said:
The Black Flash said:
Isn't this what the govt basically did at the end of the War? Issued bonds to the public, because the state was broke.
Yes, I think you're right. War bonds, and a subsequent UK Government then did something to reduce their value and screwed everyone. Not sure of exactly what happened, but have/had some very upset grandparents who lost money.Maybe "only" should be subbed for "easiest"!
Look at the "what would 84 Pounds in 1954 be worth worth now."
If over half of taxpayers have a lower tax rate, then gov is going to have a fall in revenue. To over come this fall in revenue they would have to bring in some sort of austerity measure. Sound familiar?
So how is this going to be better? Other than you pay the gov £100k, get a tax break of for more than 100k, but everything is still the same for everyone else.
So how is this going to be better? Other than you pay the gov £100k, get a tax break of for more than 100k, but everything is still the same for everyone else.
Look at it this way. (percentages might be not 100% accurate)
Top 50% earners pay something like 95% of tax
Top 10% pay 50%+
Top 1% pay 35%+
So by your calcs....
27.5 million working, we shall use the 10% earners scenario first.
2.75 million pay the £100k which nets you £275 billion in one off fee.
So say they all take you up on offer... you get the money and now those that were paying 50%+ of all the tax are now paying half or quarter of taxes they used to, under your new proposed government scheme.
Who is going to make up the short fall?
Oh wait the government will borrow to make it up.
Its almost as bad as the idea on facebook of paying people 1million each to jump start the economy, not realising the person who started the email chain has as much maths and economics skills as Winky Mcf
knut so the figures were out by a factor of 10 or 100 on the initial figures. So it was going to cost something like 100 trillion to jump start the economy instead of 100 billion as they thought.
Top 50% earners pay something like 95% of tax
Top 10% pay 50%+
Top 1% pay 35%+
So by your calcs....
27.5 million working, we shall use the 10% earners scenario first.
2.75 million pay the £100k which nets you £275 billion in one off fee.
So say they all take you up on offer... you get the money and now those that were paying 50%+ of all the tax are now paying half or quarter of taxes they used to, under your new proposed government scheme.
Who is going to make up the short fall?
Oh wait the government will borrow to make it up.
Its almost as bad as the idea on facebook of paying people 1million each to jump start the economy, not realising the person who started the email chain has as much maths and economics skills as Winky Mcf
knut so the figures were out by a factor of 10 or 100 on the initial figures. So it was going to cost something like 100 trillion to jump start the economy instead of 100 billion as they thought.I’ve had a crackpot idea or two of my own.
Default, tell the IMF or whoever that "the cheque's in the post" or "sorry IMF, Britain moved out aaaaaaages ago, I don't know where".
But seriously, the government is looking to reduce or clear the deficit, but in order to do that, firstly they need to bring spending below the level of income. Once we reach that point - just change the phone number at the BOE and default, it's all owed ultimately to China and they've got a huge surplus anyway.
Obviously this will affect our AAA rating; in fact we'd be cut of from national debt forever more, but is that such a bad thing? No Government would ever be able to run it up again so a firm ceiling would be put on government spending and without a limitless overdraft to use would really make future governments think before they get involved with wars to stabilise the oil based economies of other countries who'll just screw us over in the end.
Or perhaps, we follow the model of the old campaign to write off 3rd world debt from a few years ago. As above, although my understanding of large-scale global economics is limited, I believe that once you get past the smoke and mirrors of international banking we owe the banks; the banks owe the Far East. This global great recession isn’t doing anyone any favours or ether side of globe and once you get past all the complex terms and stuff ‘money’ doesn’t actually exist other than a medium to exchange one asset for another be that physical assets or labour. So just write trillions of it off and the economic machine will run again because the movement of money is always more important that the volume of it.
Default, tell the IMF or whoever that "the cheque's in the post" or "sorry IMF, Britain moved out aaaaaaages ago, I don't know where".
But seriously, the government is looking to reduce or clear the deficit, but in order to do that, firstly they need to bring spending below the level of income. Once we reach that point - just change the phone number at the BOE and default, it's all owed ultimately to China and they've got a huge surplus anyway.
Obviously this will affect our AAA rating; in fact we'd be cut of from national debt forever more, but is that such a bad thing? No Government would ever be able to run it up again so a firm ceiling would be put on government spending and without a limitless overdraft to use would really make future governments think before they get involved with wars to stabilise the oil based economies of other countries who'll just screw us over in the end.
Or perhaps, we follow the model of the old campaign to write off 3rd world debt from a few years ago. As above, although my understanding of large-scale global economics is limited, I believe that once you get past the smoke and mirrors of international banking we owe the banks; the banks owe the Far East. This global great recession isn’t doing anyone any favours or ether side of globe and once you get past all the complex terms and stuff ‘money’ doesn’t actually exist other than a medium to exchange one asset for another be that physical assets or labour. So just write trillions of it off and the economic machine will run again because the movement of money is always more important that the volume of it.
P-Jay said:
...change the phone number at the BOE and default, it's all owed ultimately to China and they've got a huge surplus anyway.
only 30% is held by foreignershttp://www.dmo.gov.uk/documentview.aspx?docname=pu...
[link corrected]
Edited by fbrs on Wednesday 19th December 16:34
fbrs said:
P-Jay said:
...change the phone number at the BOE and default, it's all owed ultimately to China and they've got a huge surplus anyway.
only 30% is held by foreignershttp://www.dmo.gov.uk/documentview.aspx?docname=pu...
P-Jay said:
Who the hell in the UK has the resources to hold 70% of my national debt?
bottom left page 1boe, uk insurance companies, uk pension funds, uk banks, uk building socs, households (30bn!)
P-Jay said:
I have to assume whilst the title owners might be UK based, it's been leveraged abroad.
not sure it makes any sense to borrow money to buy an asset yielding 2%. at these yields uk debt is held by people who have to or don't have any better ideasGassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff