Welfare Card

[Du1point8]

EDLT said:

Du1point8 said:

Im guessing people on here are saying that they cant do this:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

saving money off benefits for holidays/cars/luxuries.

After all if the tax payer is paying for it and they themselves cant afford those luxuries, then why should people on benefits.

That is clearly an example of the average person on benefits.

Well no its not you tard...

but if you engaged your brain, think first and read what I put then you would get it... I wasnt saying that is your average benefits person, I said that the people on this thread that are liking the card idea is due to cases like this.

FFS

[Mr_B]

EDLT said:

Except you have to actually look for a job, which is being monitored more closely than ever, and JSA is a massive £70 a week. That doesn't sounds like any kind of lifestyle I'd want, but then I don't worship the Daily Mail.

If you don't think there are people who get more than £70 in benefits and happy to live to like that, more fool you.
The point and rough idea was, if you remove simply dropping a sum of money in their bank account for a 2 weekly 5 min visit to a Job center and make it a bit more a of a pain,it will help it not being a lazy system of free cash that just appears in your bank account.
If you were only able to access part of the payment and only able to spend in store on a range of food that wasn't junk food, it would be a small step to dissuade people from picking if they want a job , or just stay on benefits.
It's not a total answer or solution, and the example wasn't a final idea, but simply dropping free cash into someones bank account is hardly motivation for some to get a job.

[Pothole]

Mr_B said:

EDLT said:

Except you have to actually look for a job, which is being monitored more closely than ever, and JSA is a massive £70 a week. That doesn't sounds like any kind of lifestyle I'd want, but then I don't worship the Daily Mail.

If you don't think there are people who get more than £70 in benefits and happy to live to like that, more fool you.
The point and rough idea was, if you remove simply dropping a sum of money in their bank account for a 2 weekly 5 min visit to a Job center and make it a bit more a of a pain,it will help it not being a lazy system of free cash that just appears in your bank account.
If you were only able to access part of the payment and only able to spend in store on a range of food that wasn't junk food, it would be a small step to dissuade people from picking if they want a job , or just stay on benefits.
It's not a total answer or solution, and the example wasn't a final idea, but simply dropping free cash into someones bank account is hardly motivation for some to get a job.

Have you actually claimed JSA recently?

[TTwiggy]

Mr_B said:

If you don't think there are people who get more than £70 in benefits and happy to live to like that, more fool you.
The point and rough idea was, if you remove simply dropping a sum of money in their bank account for a 2 weekly 5 min visit to a Job center and make it a bit more a of a pain,it will help it not being a lazy system of free cash that just appears in your bank account.
If you were only able to access part of the payment and only able to spend in store on a range of food that wasn't junk food, it would be a small step to dissuade people from picking if they want a job , or just stay on benefits.
It's not a total answer or solution, and the example wasn't a final idea, but simply dropping free cash into someones bank account is hardly motivation for some to get a job.

So what would you like them to do? Run through a burning building? Wrestle a lion?

This system will only serve to put even more money through the door of Tesco etc, as they will inevitably be the 'merchant of choice' for the doley's benefit card. We already subsidise their ilk through the working tax credits which allow them to limit all their staff to part-time minimum wage jobs. Let's not give them more of our money.

[Mr_B]

Pothole said:

Mr_B said:

EDLT said:

Except you have to actually look for a job, which is being monitored more closely than ever, and JSA is a massive £70 a week. That doesn't sounds like any kind of lifestyle I'd want, but then I don't worship the Daily Mail.

If you don't think there are people who get more than £70 in benefits and happy to live to like that, more fool you.
The point and rough idea was, if you remove simply dropping a sum of money in their bank account for a 2 weekly 5 min visit to a Job center and make it a bit more a of a pain,it will help it not being a lazy system of free cash that just appears in your bank account.
If you were only able to access part of the payment and only able to spend in store on a range of food that wasn't junk food, it would be a small step to dissuade people from picking if they want a job , or just stay on benefits.
It's not a total answer or solution, and the example wasn't a final idea, but simply dropping free cash into someones bank account is hardly motivation for some to get a job.

Have you actually claimed JSA recently?

You do know people get more than just JSA ?

[SpeedMattersNot]

I can't see how it's possible for people to avoid getting a job, without breaking the rules/law?

When I was on JSA, you had effectively 6 weeks saving grace where you had to show the jobs you had applied for. Then after that, it was made quite clear they would start offering you jobs outside of your chosen fields...I initially was looking for work as a vehicle technician again, so finding work was more difficult than if I had just applied for stacking shelves at Tesco's!

Anyone got a known link to just how many people "live off benefits" ?

• The top 3 results on Google are dailymail links

Edited by SpeedMattersNot on Tuesday 18th December 14:54

[Pothole]

Mr_B said:

Pothole said:

Mr_B said:

EDLT said:

Except you have to actually look for a job, which is being monitored more closely than ever, and JSA is a massive £70 a week. That doesn't sounds like any kind of lifestyle I'd want, but then I don't worship the Daily Mail.

If you don't think there are people who get more than £70 in benefits and happy to live to like that, more fool you.
The point and rough idea was, if you remove simply dropping a sum of money in their bank account for a 2 weekly 5 min visit to a Job center and make it a bit more a of a pain,it will help it not being a lazy system of free cash that just appears in your bank account.
If you were only able to access part of the payment and only able to spend in store on a range of food that wasn't junk food, it would be a small step to dissuade people from picking if they want a job , or just stay on benefits.
It's not a total answer or solution, and the example wasn't a final idea, but simply dropping free cash into someones bank account is hardly motivation for some to get a job.

Have you actually claimed JSA recently?

You do know people get more than just JSA ?

Of course, but your guff about "a 2 weekly 5 min visit to a Job center" would suggest that's what you're talking about.

[JensenA]

There are a huge amount of perfectly decent people claiming state benefits at the moment - and don't for one moment think it will never happen to you. No one knows what is round the corner. Redundancy, illness, accident, just hope that nothing untoward never happens to you, and you become one of the 'scum' claining state benefits.

[sugerbear]

Caulkhead said:

An excellent idea if only to allow the government to see where the taxpayer's money is actually spent by those in receipt of benefits.

How would that happen? Do you want to an an MI system on top of the payment card as well ?

Why the hell would Tesco or Sainsburys want anything to do with this card ? They currently take payment cards but they dont discrimate against the types of items you can buy so it would be their responsiblity to implement something that stopped certain categories of item being sold. Tesco dont report that you spend £x on ciggies and £y on food at the moment, why would they even want to start.

Using a card for benefits payments is fine if you (as a government) want to be able to track the card and who it is issued to, but if you want something that stops spending on certain specific items you have zero chance of that actually being implemented.

Dumb expensive idea.

[Mr_B]

Pothole said:

Mr_B said:

Pothole said:

Mr_B said:

EDLT said:

Except you have to actually look for a job, which is being monitored more closely than ever, and JSA is a massive £70 a week. That doesn't sounds like any kind of lifestyle I'd want, but then I don't worship the Daily Mail.

If you don't think there are people who get more than £70 in benefits and happy to live to like that, more fool you.
The point and rough idea was, if you remove simply dropping a sum of money in their bank account for a 2 weekly 5 min visit to a Job center and make it a bit more a of a pain,it will help it not being a lazy system of free cash that just appears in your bank account.
If you were only able to access part of the payment and only able to spend in store on a range of food that wasn't junk food, it would be a small step to dissuade people from picking if they want a job , or just stay on benefits.
It's not a total answer or solution, and the example wasn't a final idea, but simply dropping free cash into someones bank account is hardly motivation for some to get a job.

Have you actually claimed JSA recently?

You do know people get more than just JSA ?

Of course, but your guff about "a 2 weekly 5 min visit to a Job center" would suggest that's what you're talking about.

It comes of a direct result actually. I lost my job aged 37 and was the first time since 17 I had ever been out of work or claimed for a thing. I was very surprised how easy it was to claim and get money.
The day after I lost my job I turned up at the Job Center and was actually told they won't do it here, but if you wanted to make a claim, to do it over the phone, which I did.
I then had an interview at the job center and was givena booklet and agreed a course of work to get me back into employment. It was then every other week at the Job Center to produce the booklet which records what you have done to find work. I think I was set 10 or 15 things a week to show I was looking for work. Given the Job Centers own examples on the form where along the lines of ' Checked online at Job Centers site ' or Called Fred Blobs Builders ' , I found it stupidly easy. The first time I went after 2 weeks I was there 10 mins a quick chat about one of the jobs I applied for. The second time I was waiting in and out in less than 5 mins after the guy just signed off be being there and the booklet looking two pages more full than last week.

I found it so easy and simple, and along with them starting to pay my private rent nearly in full and the discounted council tax, I could quite easily and enjoyably taken 6 months of work, and while not having much cash, would have very possible and very easy.

I'm sorry it doesn't fit with your view you want to project, but that's my experience and I haven't forgot how easy it was or way people would and do simply go this route , rather than cleaning or something for 40 - 50 hours a week and take home less money.

[TTwiggy]

JensenA said:

There are a huge amount of perfectly decent people claiming state benefits at the moment - and don't for one moment think it will never happen to you. No one knows what is round the corner. Redundancy, illness, accident, just hope that nothing untoward never happens to you, and you become one of the 'scum' claining state benefits.

This +1000

Sadly, there are any number of nasty, vindictive, smug little twerps on this site who seem to believe that the world could never have a surfeit of 'IT consultants', thrusting 'sales executives', 'financial advisers' etc etc.

[SpeedMattersNot]

Mr_B said:

It comes of a direct result actually. I lost my job aged 37 and was the first time since 17 I had ever been out of work or claimed for a thing. I was very surprised how easy it was to claim and get money.
The day after I lost my job I turned up at the Job Center and was actually told they won't do it here, but if you wanted to make a claim, to do it over the phone, which I did.
I then had an interview at the job center and was givena booklet and agreed a course of work to get me back into employment. It was then every other week at the Job Center to produce the booklet which records what you have done to find work. I think I was set 10 or 15 things a week to show I was looking for work. Given the Job Centers own examples on the form where along the lines of ' Checked online at Job Centers site ' or Called Fred Blobs Builders ' , I found it stupidly easy. The first time I went after 2 weeks I was there 10 mins a quick chat about one of the jobs I applied for. The second time I was waiting in and out in less than 5 mins after the guy just signed off be being there and the booklet looking two pages more full than last week.

I found it so easy and simple, and along with them starting to pay my private rent nearly in full and the discounted council tax, I could quite easily and enjoyably taken 6 months of work, and while not having much cash, would have very possible and very easy.

I'm sorry it doesn't fit with your view you want to project, but that's my experience and I haven't forgot how easy it was or way people would and do simply go this route , rather than cleaning or something for 40 - 50 hours a week and take home less money.

They paid your private rent? Blimey!

Regarding your experience though, how long did it take you to find work?

[Pothole]

Mr_B said:

Pothole said:

Mr_B said:

Pothole said:

Mr_B said:

EDLT said:

Except you have to actually look for a job, which is being monitored more closely than ever, and JSA is a massive £70 a week. That doesn't sounds like any kind of lifestyle I'd want, but then I don't worship the Daily Mail.

If you don't think there are people who get more than £70 in benefits and happy to live to like that, more fool you.
The point and rough idea was, if you remove simply dropping a sum of money in their bank account for a 2 weekly 5 min visit to a Job center and make it a bit more a of a pain,it will help it not being a lazy system of free cash that just appears in your bank account.
If you were only able to access part of the payment and only able to spend in store on a range of food that wasn't junk food, it would be a small step to dissuade people from picking if they want a job , or just stay on benefits.
It's not a total answer or solution, and the example wasn't a final idea, but simply dropping free cash into someones bank account is hardly motivation for some to get a job.

Have you actually claimed JSA recently?

You do know people get more than just JSA ?

Of course, but your guff about "a 2 weekly 5 min visit to a Job center" would suggest that's what you're talking about.

It comes of a direct result actually. I lost my job aged 37 and was the first time since 17 I had ever been out of work or claimed for a thing. I was very surprised how easy it was to claim and get money.
The day after I lost my job I turned up at the Job Center and was actually told they won't do it here, but if you wanted to make a claim, to do it over the phone, which I did.
I then had an interview at the job center and was givena booklet and agreed a course of work to get me back into employment. It was then every other week at the Job Center to produce the booklet which records what you have done to find work. I think I was set 10 or 15 things a week to show I was looking for work. Given the Job Centers own examples on the form where along the lines of ' Checked online at Job Centers site ' or Called Fred Blobs Builders ' , I found it stupidly easy. The first time I went after 2 weeks I was there 10 mins a quick chat about one of the jobs I applied for. The second time I was waiting in and out in less than 5 mins after the guy just signed off be being there and the booklet looking two pages more full than last week.

I found it so easy and simple, and along with them starting to pay my private rent nearly in full and the discounted council tax, I could quite easily and enjoyably taken 6 months of work, and while not having much cash, would have very possible and very easy.

I'm sorry it doesn't fit with your view you want to project, but that's my experience and I haven't forgot how easy it was or way people would and do simply go this route , rather than cleaning or something for 40 - 50 hours a week and take home less money.

So there was a bit more than just the 2 weekly visits, then? I'm just looking for accuracy. Why should it, for someone in the position you were in for example, be any harder to claim the benefits you did? I'm not sure I agree with the argument that making people jump through hoops unnecessarily encourages them to do more to look for work.

[Du1point8]

SpeedMattersNot said:

Mr_B said:

It comes of a direct result actually. I lost my job aged 37 and was the first time since 17 I had ever been out of work or claimed for a thing. I was very surprised how easy it was to claim and get money.
The day after I lost my job I turned up at the Job Center and was actually told they won't do it here, but if you wanted to make a claim, to do it over the phone, which I did.
I then had an interview at the job center and was givena booklet and agreed a course of work to get me back into employment. It was then every other week at the Job Center to produce the booklet which records what you have done to find work. I think I was set 10 or 15 things a week to show I was looking for work. Given the Job Centers own examples on the form where along the lines of ' Checked online at Job Centers site ' or Called Fred Blobs Builders ' , I found it stupidly easy. The first time I went after 2 weeks I was there 10 mins a quick chat about one of the jobs I applied for. The second time I was waiting in and out in less than 5 mins after the guy just signed off be being there and the booklet looking two pages more full than last week.

I found it so easy and simple, and along with them starting to pay my private rent nearly in full and the discounted council tax, I could quite easily and enjoyably taken 6 months of work, and while not having much cash, would have very possible and very easy.

I'm sorry it doesn't fit with your view you want to project, but that's my experience and I haven't forgot how easy it was or way people would and do simply go this route , rather than cleaning or something for 40 - 50 hours a week and take home less money.

They paid your private rent? Blimey!

Regarding your experience though, how long did it take you to find work?

they will also pay your mortgage (up to £200k interest only as well)...

However if you have been a good person and have savings or assets (not sure if house counts) then they need to be released first otherwise its only KSA and thats it.

[Engineer1]

Kozy said:

While dishing these cards out to anyone in receipt of any benefits is undoubtedly unfair, I think introducing this to the long term unemployed is a great idea. Classed as fit for work, but unemployed for anything over 6 months, you lose your luxuries.

Edited by Kozy on Tuesday 18th December 13:21

Outside the PH bubble the issue is that in some places jobs are scarce, and unless you are on benefits in your own right they do dry up after 6 months so just when you may need cash to dry clean your suit for the interview and pay for the transport there your cash stops.

The issue is the benefit system works for those who make a career of claiming but honest workers who are between jobs are stuffed as all they are likely to get is the bare minimum as they are unlikely to structure their lives to maximise the benefit cheque.

Also having been on JSA they tend to judge the type of person you are and can tell if you are out of work and looking or just coming in to claim your cash before heading off to spend it on beer and fags.

[Mr_B]

Pothole said:

o there was a bit more than just the 2 weekly visits, then? I'm just looking for accuracy. Why should it, for someone in the position you were in for example, be any harder to claim the benefits you did? I'm not sure I agree with the argument that making people jump through hoops unnecessarily encourages them to do more to look for work.

There is a first interview regarding your claim and to check it and to see what work you can do etc etc and in which you agree a course of action as to what you are going to do to find work. So you tell them what you were doing and what you can d,o and they will agree so many things you have to do to to find such a jod, which you record in your little booklet which you produce every 2 weeks. You are given a period of time ( I forget how long, 3 months I think ) to find a similar job and pay to what you were doing and what might replace your income and commitments such as mortgage, rent etc. They do not say there is this cleaners job near you, you must apply. That can happen after the time period is up, but doesn't seem to happen or work.

So, a first inerview and then every 2 weeks to get your booklet signed off. They did next to nothing, and the times I was there watching everyone doing the same, it seemed 5 mins was a long wait.

I never said it should be harder to claim benefits. I said it should not just be a case of money arrives in your bank and you spend it as you wish. I offered the rough idea that if say a part of that was only available to spend on food, and decent none junk food at that, then it would force you to either take it or have to take and and then spend what for some is the living excess buying crap like fags booze and junk food, stupid Christmas presents and anything else.
as said, I could have easily taken 6 months of and spent every day doing anything. Wouldn't have any money, but wouldn't have been uncomfortable and not been doing 50 - 55 hours a week at work.
What can I say other than my impression of it, which was this is far too easy and I can see why those who will only ever get a job at the st end of the market will and doo accpet this for as long as they can milk it. The incentive level was low, but then everyone is different and some will work their arse of not to be there, so will just accpet it as beter than work.

[SpeedMattersNot]

Mr_B said:

There is a first interview regarding your claim and to check it and to see what work you can do etc etc and in which you agree a course of action as to what you are going to do to find work. So you tell them what you were doing and what you can d,o and they will agree so many things you have to do to to find such a jod, which you record in your little booklet which you produce every 2 weeks. You are given a period of time ( I forget how long, 3 months I think ) to find a similar job and pay to what you were doing and what might replace your income and commitments such as mortgage, rent etc. They do not say there is this cleaners job near you, you must apply. That can happen after the time period is up, but doesn't seem to happen or work.

So, a first inerview and then every 2 weeks to get your booklet signed off. They did next to nothing, and the times I was there watching everyone doing the same, it seemed 5 mins was a long wait.

I never said it should be harder to claim benefits. I said it should not just be a case of money arrives in your bank and you spend it as you wish. I offered the rough idea that if say a part of that was only available to spend on food, and decent none junk food at that, then it would force you to either take it or have to take and and then spend what for some is the living excess buying crap like fags booze and junk food, stupid Christmas presents and anything else.
as said, I could have easily taken 6 months of and spent every day doing anything. Wouldn't have any money, but wouldn't have been uncomfortable and not been doing 50 - 55 hours a week at work.
What can I say other than my impression of it, which was this is far too easy and I can see why those who will only ever get a job at the st end of the market will and doo accpet this for as long as they can milk it. The incentive level was low, but then everyone is different and some will work their arse of not to be there, so will just accpet it as beter than work.

When they paid your private rent, did they pay it directly, or did they pay the money into your bank account, allowing you to pay your rent?

Also, how long did it take you to get back into work?

[otolith]

It's a bit spiteful. I think some people need to be pushed off benefits and into work for their own and everybody else's good, and that some people will need to have their existence made somewhat less comfortable to do that, but I don't think this is a good way of doing it.

[wolves_wanderer]

Chrisw666 said:

This won't work.

It will create a black economy where goods are bartered, it will force those who are unemployed and have taken on credit agreements from catalogues and brighthouse/wonga etc to dip more into debt, people will start to do various things to earn cash some of these things will be legal but immoral, some will be illegal but won't directly harm others, but theft and burglary will climb exponentially.

A few years ago Asylum Seekers used to get paid in vouchers that could only be used for food and non-alcoholic drink. The system worked perfectly... for us students who bought discount food from the asylum seekers for cash that they could then spend on whatever they chose.

ETA It was a daft idea then and remains a daft idea now.

[Du1point8]

otolith said:

It's a bit spiteful. I think some people need to be pushed off benefits and into work for their own and everybody else's good, and that some people will need to have their existence made somewhat less comfortable to do that, but I don't think this is a good way of doing it.

How do you sort out a solution to kick the ass of anyone who is making it their career to be on benefits without hurting those that need it?

How do you explain to people in areas that have high unemployment, that they might actually have to move away from friends and family to get a job and that is not an excuse to stay there on benefits?

The above is just 2 things, but most of all, how do you do it without certain groups of people jumping down your throat for penalising the poor ( when they say it should be the rich that is taxed more) and saying its not like that at all?

Do you leave that part of the welfare state to get more out of hand? Just waiting and keep taxing people more like the french are doing, then all of a sudden... pow!! Those that can leave do and start removing all wealth from the country as its not worth them creating it to lose 75%+ to tax?

How do those that oppose every idea to reform the welfare state suggest it should be dealt with??

The floor is open to your ideas, so lets hear them.