Discussion
Mr_B said:
The incentive level was low, but then everyone is different and some will work their arse of not to be there, so will just accpet it as beter than work.
but everyone should be treated the same, only differently from the way they are treated now? I can't see how this proposal will make the slightest difference or save us any money, really.Someone above said the money should not be available to spend on ready meals (junk food) but rencet research suggests that they could be 'healthier' (whatever the f
k that means) than meals cooked from sratch follwoing popular 'celebrity' chefs' recipes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20713985I don't believe there is a simple fix for the idle and workshy. It seems hypocritical, however, to encourage people, on the one hand, to be ambitious and hold out for the best offer or deal in most of their life, but to expect them to settle for any job, however menial or however overqualified they may be, merely as an alternative to claiming benefits to which they are entitled.
By the same token, have you ever applied for any of these 40-50 hour a week cleaning jobs you mentioned? I have, and got nowhere because employers don't believe I'm serious or will stay for any length of time so don't bother with me as they see it as a waste of time. I have had that from the horse's mouth, by the way.
Du1point8 said:
How do you sort out a solution to kick the ass of anyone who is making it their career to be on benefits without hurting those that need it?
How do you explain to people in areas that have high unemployment, that they might actually have to move away from friends and family to get a job and that is not an excuse to stay there on benefits?
The above is just 2 things, but most of all, how do you do it without certain groups of people jumping down your throat for penalising the poor ( when they say it should be the rich that is taxed more) and saying its not like that at all?
The other question would be where are the jobs for these people? How do you explain to people in areas that have high unemployment, that they might actually have to move away from friends and family to get a job and that is not an excuse to stay there on benefits?
The above is just 2 things, but most of all, how do you do it without certain groups of people jumping down your throat for penalising the poor ( when they say it should be the rich that is taxed more) and saying its not like that at all?
I know there are unfilled vacancies, but not always the skills. I also know that some of those who are working the system wouldn't be wanted by many (if any) employers, can you imagine taking on idle/unskilled/un work ready/barely capable people in a country where sacking someone is a minefield. You could almost guarantee that those who made a living from the benefits system would revel in the more lucrative employment tribunal industry.
Du1point8 said:
otolith said:
It's a bit spiteful. I think some people need to be pushed off benefits and into work for their own and everybody else's good, and that some people will need to have their existence made somewhat less comfortable to do that, but I don't think this is a good way of doing it.
How do you sort out a solution to kick the ass of anyone who is making it their career to be on benefits without hurting those that need it?How do you explain to people in areas that have high unemployment, that they might actually have to move away from friends and family to get a job and that is not an excuse to stay there on benefits?
The above is just 2 things, but most of all, how do you do it without certain groups of people jumping down your throat for penalising the poor ( when they say it should be the rich that is taxed more) and saying its not like that at all?
Do you leave that part of the welfare state to get more out of hand? Just waiting and keep taxing people more like the french are doing, then all of a sudden... pow!! Those that can leave do and start removing all wealth from the country as its not worth them creating it to lose 75%+ to tax?
How do those that oppose every idea to reform the welfare state suggest it should be dealt with??
The floor is open to your ideas, so lets hear them.
Pothole said:
Someone above said the money should not be available to spend on ready meals (junk food) but rencet research suggests that they could be 'healthier' (whatever the fk that means) than meals cooked from sratch follwoing popular 'celebrity' chefs' recipes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20713985
Really... you are going to say that a ready meal is healthier than a gourmet meal that you are supposed to have once in a blue moon, if you ate out of recipe books all the time then you would be dead before 40.k that means) than meals cooked from sratch follwoing popular 'celebrity' chefs' recipes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20713985So your ready made meal of macaroni cheese is:
flavourless cheese, sauce and cheapo pasta
gourmet version:
lots of cream and full fat milk in sauce, when creating the pasta, you choose the best flour, butter, etc, cheeses in the form of a mature cheddar and gouda.
Which is healthier and which would you rather have?
Such a non biased article you choose there.
Du1point8 said:
Pothole said:
Someone above said the money should not be available to spend on ready meals (junk food) but rencet research suggests that they could be 'healthier' (whatever the fk that means) than meals cooked from sratch follwoing popular 'celebrity' chefs' recipes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20713985
Really... you are going to say that a ready meal is healthier than a gourmet meal that you are supposed to have once in a blue moon, if you ate out of recipe books all the time then you would be dead before 40.k that means) than meals cooked from sratch follwoing popular 'celebrity' chefs' recipes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20713985So your ready made meal of macaroni cheese is:
flavourless cheese, sauce and cheapo pasta
gourmet version:
lots of cream and full fat milk in sauce, when creating the pasta, you choose the best flour, butter, etc, cheeses in the form of a mature cheddar and gouda.
Which is healthier and which would you rather have?
Such a non biased article you choose there.
one problem is that most career spongers are getting lots more that jsa.
eg. if you prefer to drink cider for breakfast instead of looking for a job they will put you on disability which is nearly double that of the dole.
(this is how MANY perfectly healthy dossers get their money round here)
getting pissed isnt a disability or a human right, its a lifestyle choice!
eg. if you prefer to drink cider for breakfast instead of looking for a job they will put you on disability which is nearly double that of the dole.
(this is how MANY perfectly healthy dossers get their money round here)
getting pissed isnt a disability or a human right, its a lifestyle choice!
Chrisw666 said:
Du1point8 said:
How do you sort out a solution to kick the ass of anyone who is making it their career to be on benefits without hurting those that need it?
How do you explain to people in areas that have high unemployment, that they might actually have to move away from friends and family to get a job and that is not an excuse to stay there on benefits?
The above is just 2 things, but most of all, how do you do it without certain groups of people jumping down your throat for penalising the poor ( when they say it should be the rich that is taxed more) and saying its not like that at all?
The other question would be where are the jobs for these people? How do you explain to people in areas that have high unemployment, that they might actually have to move away from friends and family to get a job and that is not an excuse to stay there on benefits?
The above is just 2 things, but most of all, how do you do it without certain groups of people jumping down your throat for penalising the poor ( when they say it should be the rich that is taxed more) and saying its not like that at all?
I know there are unfilled vacancies, but not always the skills. I also know that some of those who are working the system wouldn't be wanted by many (if any) employers, can you imagine taking on idle/unskilled/un work ready/barely capable people in a country where sacking someone is a minefield. You could almost guarantee that those who made a living from the benefits system would revel in the more lucrative employment tribunal industry.
All some people want is to sit on their arse watching their 55" plasma tv, make no effort to work and actively look to get fired from jobs, yet when you look to remove benefits and tell them to f
k off out of society, people stick up for them stating its their human rights to get benefits and be a burden on society.Strange that those socialists that bleat about socialism also forget that one of the biggest part of socialism is the following: You can only take out, what you put into society. Put nothing in, then you deserve to starve.
Du1point8 said:
Chrisw666 said:
Du1point8 said:
How do you sort out a solution to kick the ass of anyone who is making it their career to be on benefits without hurting those that need it?
How do you explain to people in areas that have high unemployment, that they might actually have to move away from friends and family to get a job and that is not an excuse to stay there on benefits?
The above is just 2 things, but most of all, how do you do it without certain groups of people jumping down your throat for penalising the poor ( when they say it should be the rich that is taxed more) and saying its not like that at all?
The other question would be where are the jobs for these people? How do you explain to people in areas that have high unemployment, that they might actually have to move away from friends and family to get a job and that is not an excuse to stay there on benefits?
The above is just 2 things, but most of all, how do you do it without certain groups of people jumping down your throat for penalising the poor ( when they say it should be the rich that is taxed more) and saying its not like that at all?
I know there are unfilled vacancies, but not always the skills. I also know that some of those who are working the system wouldn't be wanted by many (if any) employers, can you imagine taking on idle/unskilled/un work ready/barely capable people in a country where sacking someone is a minefield. You could almost guarantee that those who made a living from the benefits system would revel in the more lucrative employment tribunal industry.
All some people want is to sit on their arse watching their 55" plasma tv, make no effort to work and actively look to get fired from jobs, yet when you look to remove benefits and tell them to f
k off out of society, people stick up for them stating its their human rights to get benefits and be a burden on society.Strange that those socialists that bleat about socialism also forget that one of the biggest part of socialism is the following: You can only take out, what you put into society. Put nothing in, then you deserve to starve.
Du1point8 said:
This is one of the problems, people defend the feckless with their benefits but they wont have working for them themselves... Yet get all upset when people suggest they do some type of manual labour as frankly thats all they are good for, picking potatoes, etc...
All some people want is to sit on their arse watching their 55" plasma tv, make no effort to work and actively look to get fired from jobs, yet when you look to remove benefits and tell them to fk off out of society, people stick up for them stating its their human rights to get benefits and be a burden on society.
Strange that those socialists that bleat about socialism also forget that one of the biggest part of socialism is the following: You can only take out, what you put into society. Put nothing in, then you deserve to starve.
It could be argued though that benefits also exist to protect people from an 'underclass' that would otherwise present a great danger to other members of society. The price we pay for being able to walk the streets without fear of being murdered for the loose change in our pockets is the benefits system.All some people want is to sit on their arse watching their 55" plasma tv, make no effort to work and actively look to get fired from jobs, yet when you look to remove benefits and tell them to f
k off out of society, people stick up for them stating its their human rights to get benefits and be a burden on society.Strange that those socialists that bleat about socialism also forget that one of the biggest part of socialism is the following: You can only take out, what you put into society. Put nothing in, then you deserve to starve.
Pothole said:
Du1point8 said:
Pothole said:
Someone above said the money should not be available to spend on ready meals (junk food) but rencet research suggests that they could be 'healthier' (whatever the fk that means) than meals cooked from sratch follwoing popular 'celebrity' chefs' recipes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20713985
Really... you are going to say that a ready meal is healthier than a gourmet meal that you are supposed to have once in a blue moon, if you ate out of recipe books all the time then you would be dead before 40.k that means) than meals cooked from sratch follwoing popular 'celebrity' chefs' recipes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20713985So your ready made meal of macaroni cheese is:
flavourless cheese, sauce and cheapo pasta
gourmet version:
lots of cream and full fat milk in sauce, when creating the pasta, you choose the best flour, butter, etc, cheeses in the form of a mature cheddar and gouda.
Which is healthier and which would you rather have?
Such a non biased article you choose there.
You dont just sit around and complain every job is beneath you, so therefore unless international DJing or professional footballer comes along, you will be at home living on benefits...
Once that kind of entitlement is got rid its never going to change. I will sit back and watch welfare keep sucking up all the GDP until its a welfare state and watch it implode. Spent everyone else's money, whats next?
Pothole said:
Du1point8 said:
Chrisw666 said:
Du1point8 said:
How do you sort out a solution to kick the ass of anyone who is making it their career to be on benefits without hurting those that need it?
How do you explain to people in areas that have high unemployment, that they might actually have to move away from friends and family to get a job and that is not an excuse to stay there on benefits?
The above is just 2 things, but most of all, how do you do it without certain groups of people jumping down your throat for penalising the poor ( when they say it should be the rich that is taxed more) and saying its not like that at all?
The other question would be where are the jobs for these people? How do you explain to people in areas that have high unemployment, that they might actually have to move away from friends and family to get a job and that is not an excuse to stay there on benefits?
The above is just 2 things, but most of all, how do you do it without certain groups of people jumping down your throat for penalising the poor ( when they say it should be the rich that is taxed more) and saying its not like that at all?
I know there are unfilled vacancies, but not always the skills. I also know that some of those who are working the system wouldn't be wanted by many (if any) employers, can you imagine taking on idle/unskilled/un work ready/barely capable people in a country where sacking someone is a minefield. You could almost guarantee that those who made a living from the benefits system would revel in the more lucrative employment tribunal industry.
All some people want is to sit on their arse watching their 55" plasma tv, make no effort to work and actively look to get fired from jobs, yet when you look to remove benefits and tell them to f
k off out of society, people stick up for them stating its their human rights to get benefits and be a burden on society.Strange that those socialists that bleat about socialism also forget that one of the biggest part of socialism is the following: You can only take out, what you put into society. Put nothing in, then you deserve to starve.
I have no TV, therefore everyone else compared to me, has those huge cheap ass plasma TVs... or LCD 3D TVs... not sure which is the latest model out there.
Du1point8 said:
This is one of the problems, people defend the feckless with their benefits but they wont have working for them themselves... Yet get all upset when people suggest they do some type of manual labour as frankly thats all they are good for, picking potatoes, etc...
I've got first hand experience of dragging the feckless to interviews, of giving employment and training opportunities to those who are classed as long term unemployed and of sitting in front of young men and women who think that certain jobs are beneath them or too hard for people like them. Of those who give employment a go probably 25% either walk or are so rubbish they make themselves easily disposed of, of the remaining 75% less than half ever truly shine. It's quite sad but in pockets of society there really are people who are incapable of work, or at least because of their social situation incapable of coping with the routine of regular employment.
Chrisw666 said:
Of those who give employment a go probably 25% either walk or are so rubbish they make themselves easily disposed of, of the remaining 75% less than half ever truly shine. It's quite sad but in pockets of society there really are people who are incapable of work, or at least because of their social situation incapable of coping with the routine of regular employment.
The question is - how have we built a society in which so many people are to all intents and purposes, useless, and how do we reverse it. Not disincentivising people is certainly part of the solution, but not all of it.SpeedMattersNot said:
I can't see how it's possible for people to avoid getting a job, without breaking the rules/law?
Really? Edited by SpeedMattersNot on Tuesday 18th December 14:54
Go into any town or city and find the nearest Wetherspoons at say 10am, it will be full of people. Now im pretty sure these people aren't loaded and choosing to spend their days in there drinking away their life savings, they are being funded to live that lifestyle and they certainly don't have jobs they are in the pub every day. It is possible to avoid getting a job and it is certainly possible to get more benefits than £70 a week and keep getting them for year after year.
Some tips on not getting a job and keeping your benefits: Sickness, stress, anxiety, personal hygiene, your appearance, the clothes your wearing to an interview, turning up at an interview late. Im sure there are lots more, your not breaking the rule your applying for work and nobody is giving you a chance.
I think that there should be a correlation between the amount of benefits received and the amount of money you’ve paid in.
New to the country? Have some food stamps
Long term unemployed? Food stamps and JSA.
Paid 30 years worth of Income Tax and NI? Follow me through to the VIP lounge…
It should be like a pension, the more you put it, the more you get out. With set minimum and maximum amounts.
It would certainly be one way of making the country a less attractive benefits destination and incentivise people to be in work and pay their taxes.
New to the country? Have some food stamps
Long term unemployed? Food stamps and JSA.
Paid 30 years worth of Income Tax and NI? Follow me through to the VIP lounge…
It should be like a pension, the more you put it, the more you get out. With set minimum and maximum amounts.
It would certainly be one way of making the country a less attractive benefits destination and incentivise people to be in work and pay their taxes.
TEKNOPUG said:
I think that there should be a correlation between the amount of benefits received and the amount of money you’ve paid in.
New to the country? Have some food stamps
Long term unemployed? Food stamps and JSA.
Paid 30 years worth of Income Tax and NI? Follow me through to the VIP lounge…
It should be like a pension, the more you put it, the more you get out. With set minimum and maximum amounts.
It would certainly be one way of making the country a less attractive benefits destination and incentivise people to be in work and pay their taxes.
Someone will come up with the same old sNew to the country? Have some food stamps
Long term unemployed? Food stamps and JSA.
Paid 30 years worth of Income Tax and NI? Follow me through to the VIP lounge…
It should be like a pension, the more you put it, the more you get out. With set minimum and maximum amounts.
It would certainly be one way of making the country a less attractive benefits destination and incentivise people to be in work and pay their taxes.
t though.'its against their humn rites init, to have stamps insted of wonga'
Even though they will be speaking total b
ks about it, then they will get legal aid, some court in the EU somewhere will say that the UK has infringed on their human rights and we should give them cash, plus compensation for their embarrassment of having stamps.Then I see in the news everyone else in the EU ignoring human rights protests and getting on with it for the sake of their countries.
BoRED S2upid said:
SpeedMattersNot said:
I can't see how it's possible for people to avoid getting a job, without breaking the rules/law?
Really? Edited by SpeedMattersNot on Tuesday 18th December 14:54
Go into any town or city and find the nearest Wetherspoons at say 10am, it will be full of people. Now im pretty sure these people aren't loaded and choosing to spend their days in there drinking away their life savings, they are being funded to live that lifestyle and they certainly don't have jobs they are in the pub every day. It is possible to avoid getting a job and it is certainly possible to get more benefits than £70 a week and keep getting them for year after year.
Some tips on not getting a job and keeping your benefits: Sickness, stress, anxiety, personal hygiene, your appearance, the clothes your wearing to an interview, turning up at an interview late. Im sure there are lots more, your not breaking the rule your applying for work and nobody is giving you a chance.
I do concede it is possible to avoid getting a job. I was incorrect to state that, there are some people who are just unemployable. But do not believe the PH/Daily Mail tripe...they're not on the same level of consciousness as we folk are. They do not swan around, smirking into their sleeves at us 'poor workers' for going to work while they're apparently spending a fortune everyday in the local Wetherspoons!
You can't prevent stupid people from being born.
EDLT said:
thinfourth2 said:
fking terrible idea for 2 reasons
1 Would you trust our glorious leaders not to roll this out to everyone that receives some money from the state such as pensioners and then roll it out to everyone so you can only buy government approved goods.
2 Just down the road from us is a little honesty box run by a farm where you take the veg they have grown and drop your cash into a little lock box. we buy all our veg from here due to the high quality and low price. How would we use this if we were on the dole?. We couldn't so we would be forced to buy st at tescos which is further away and more expensive.
I know i will get shouted down by those that want to see anyone unemployed shot on sight who will support this idea.
The first bit is a crazy conspiracy theory. The torys are in power, not those evil red-ties!king terrible idea for 2 reasons1 Would you trust our glorious leaders not to roll this out to everyone that receives some money from the state such as pensioners and then roll it out to everyone so you can only buy government approved goods.
2 Just down the road from us is a little honesty box run by a farm where you take the veg they have grown and drop your cash into a little lock box. we buy all our veg from here due to the high quality and low price. How would we use this if we were on the dole?. We couldn't so we would be forced to buy s
t at tescos which is further away and more expensive.I know i will get shouted down by those that want to see anyone unemployed shot on sight who will support this idea.
The third bit was apparently an accurate prediction, good old pistonheads.
Yes' that's a good reason to not introduce a welfare card for benefits. I would add that my hand woven, Bengalese, organic hemp wallet doesn't have slots for credit cards as well, the idea is clearly unworkable.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff