Creeping destruction of England.

[Derek Smith]

Kermit power said:

I lived in the South of France in the early 80s, and in Spain in the mid 90s. Many of the elderly in particular were desperate to go home, but couldn't because they couldn't afford the relocation costs.

Some of these were due to ill health and wanting to be near family in their twilight years, whereas others had left the country when their kids left home, but suddenly wanted to go back when they had Grandchildren.

The reality was that a lot of people had moved out there expecting it to fix unhappiness in their lives, only to find that the unhappiness was internal.

Now that's too deep for a Sunday morning.

[Kermit power]

Derek Smith said:

Now that's too deep for a Sunday morning.

Possibly so!

It should probably also be said that my experiences are from countries where expats tended to be people who'd been somewhere on holiday for a couple of weeks and briefly left behind the stresses of work, not had to wash up as they were eating out for every meal, and stopped arguing with their spouse as a result.

Strangely, when they then decided it would be a good idea to move there, they discovered that living and working somewhere with sustainable spending levels is rather different to being on holiday and spending at 5 times your usual rate!

Experiences amongst expat communities in places such as New York or Singapore where the work is the main initial attraction could be very different, of course.

[DonkeyApple]

Kermit power said:

JDRoest said:

No, my point is that if someone doesn't like England, then there are alternatives. Note that most expats aren't looking to return to the UK anytime soon (if ever). Speaks volumes.

I lived in the South of France in the early 80s, and in Spain in the mid 90s. Many of the elderly in particular were desperate to go home, but couldn't because they couldn't afford the relocation costs.

Some of these were due to ill health and wanting to be near family in their twilight years, whereas others had left the country when their kids left home, but suddenly wanted to go back when they had Grandchildren.

The reality was that a lot of people had moved out there expecting it to fix unhappiness in their lives, only to find that the unhappiness was internal.

The lot of the expat is not as roses as many would have you think.

It is very hard to break enough ties to be able to be gone forever.

There is clearly a minority who can do this easily but for most it isn't the haven they imagined.

If you look at the economic migrants such as in Dubai, HK, SG etc even after years of living away once retired they realise they have raise their children as English and they themselves lose their social circle as most leave on retirement. So eventually a hasty retreat to Surrey with a damaged liver and a plastic riddled wife occurs.

NZ is full of Brits who regret selling up.

I think that the biggest issue is that people aren't honest with themselves as to just how hard it is for most of us to up sticks and change country for ever.

Every country has older people whinging that their country has changed for starters. It's a function of growing old and losing dominance to the younger people.

Having moved around a lot I am of the view that nowhere is better than England, just different. And as we are all different then for some of us the place which is better for us is not England. I pity fellow expats who feel the need to talk England down as they are nearly always just trying to still sell their erroneous descision to themselves. It's the same process as hating the ex because she dumped you and trying to pretend you dumped her. We call them 'runners'. They will never be happy wherever they move as its not the place that is the issue.

But the globe is full of English for whom another country or culture is just a better fit and they have found what is right for them. But these people don't usually waste any time trying to pitch their view to England.

I've never seen myself growing old in England and my children are learning several different languages so that they have a little more freedom in deciding where they wish to live.

[Derek Smith]

Kermit power said:

Possibly so!

It should probably also be said that my experiences are from countries where expats tended to be people who'd been somewhere on holiday for a couple of weeks and briefly left behind the stresses of work, not had to wash up as they were eating out for every meal, and stopped arguing with their spouse as a result.

Strangely, when they then decided it would be a good idea to move there, they discovered that living and working somewhere with sustainable spending levels is rather different to being on holiday and spending at 5 times your usual rate!

Experiences amongst expat communities in places such as New York or Singapore where the work is the main initial attraction could be very different, of course.

Good point.

On a positive note about the differences between England of old and nowadays:

Coffee!

The quality of coffee in the 70s and well into the 80s was dreadful. I stuck with tea and when on patrol used to take a few teabags with me and ask for hot water. I remembrer once getting a cup of undrinkable stuff given me from a woman who was complaining about some dreaful behaviour from a neighbour. When she left the room to get the diary of events I poured the coffee into a plant next to me. As I turned back I saw her at the door to her kitchen staring at me. It was an uncomfortable balance of the interview. Still feel rotten about that one.

Nowadays you can go into the vast majority of coffee shops (no longer Starbucks as if you are seen coming out of one of them it was like me and my plant hydration) have decent coffee and some are very good. In my little town we have a choice of a dozen coffee shops/cafes, all of which serve drinkable coffee and some giving you a choice of beans.

Now that is one hell of a change from the 70s.

[moparmick]

That's if you can afford the parking Derek.

[RichB]

Derek Smith said:

In my little town we have a choice of a dozen coffee shops/cafes, .

Indeed - and a dozen mobile phone shops and many charity shops but nowhere selling anything of any use actually manufactured here...

[Colonial]

JDRoest said:

No, my point is that if someone doesn't like England, then there are alternatives. Note that most expats aren't looking to return to the UK anytime soon (if ever). Speaks volumes.

My sister and her husband are expats. To the UK. They love it. They have no desire to return to Australia. Does this mean Australia is rubbish? The the UK is the best country in the world? No. It just means that for where individuals are in their lives the choices they make are the ones that suit them.

I see plenty of expat brits coming here and then complaining that it isn't like the UK. I see others coming here and embracing the differences and seizing a new life. Same with expat yanks, saffers and kiwis. Once again, individuals making their own decisions.

[DonkeyApple]

Colonial said:

My sister and her husband are expats. To the UK. They love it. They have no desire to return to Australia. Does this mean Australia is rubbish? The the UK is the best country in the world? No. It just means that for where individuals are in their lives the choices they make are the ones that suit them.

I see plenty of expat brits coming here and then complaining that it isn't like the UK. I see others coming here and embracing the differences and seizing a new life. Same with expat yanks, saffers and kiwis. Once again, individuals making their own decisions.

Indeed. Being British makes it so easy to go and live somewhere else if we want to. But it's horses for courses. The plain reality is that buggering off suits some and not others. At the same time most people are just whingers who'll never do anything.

But, as a Brit, if we want to go we can go anytime, any place.

[Situation]

Justin Cyder said:

Good, fking serves you right, it might teach you to think for yourself but I doubt it somehow.

This