Feeling sorry for farmers? ... screwed over by supermarkets?
Discussion
croyde said:
If you see a lovely field with a family having a picnic, and there’s a nice pond in it, you fill in the pond with concrete, you plough the family into the field, you blow up the tree, and use the leaves to make a dress for your wife who’s also your brother.
You just read that in a text book... I religiously use the local farm shops as I hate supermarket food and often chat with them but they do like a moan. The one I get my meat from was complaining on Friday how English businesses don't buy enough home grown produce and should support British farmers. I agreed with him but told him it's a two way street and until he sold his Mitsubishi pickup and bought British he wasn't in a position to complain. I think I'll have to buy my meat elsewhere now. 
Willy Nilly said:
Farmers are not paid to keep fields empty.
<snip>
Very good post. People will moan about farming and farmers while at the same time expecting to have food in the supermarkets at all times on demand, for cheap. The disconnection between food and farm is not a healthy thing IMO.<snip>
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Caravan Storage too..... piss easy money maker
That's my punchline, you swine! Anyway, the background
- back in the mid '60s, a farmer sold some land to a regional builder - this sale divided the farmer's land, so he had land adjacent his farmhouse and at the far end of the parcel he'd just sold, but the middle was to be built upon. My parents were the first property occupiers on that new estate; it overlooked the farmhouse, henhouses and cattle sheds (and stank of s
t in the environs - and still does to date - for most of the year).Numerous cows were walked up and down the road twice daily from the late '60s to the early '90s (I can remember my parents scooping up the dung and laying it on the gardens almost daily
), and the farmer was always a local milkman as well.Now? He's still a milkman, and also keeps a few cows on the farm as well as hens in the shed who lay eggs (and presumably all disappear annually
to be replaced, as well as stinking the local area out), as well as quite a few caravans (which, errm, don't ) without planning permission.Top field appears to have been empty for around 20 years (perhaps he's baling it up annually? I never go up there, and it's not a big field), unlike the small - but crammed - wintering caravan parc at the back of what is now my mum's house...
This is one farmer who seems to be lurching along nicely, with no signs of any imminent demise to be heard on the local bush telegraph...
lawrence567 said:
I was told & this could be complete BS that for a cow for meat, a farmer gets paid around £1000, if he sells 100 a year that's £100,000, the one near us has his cattle outside practically all year round, feeding them on grass, which costst him nothing, he has so much land he just rotates which field they're in he has st loads of land he inherited as well as the farm house & nackered old tractor.
He must be fairly well off as both his kids went to a £10k a year private school.
The grass costs nothing. Not quite true!t loads of land he inherited as well as the farm house & nackered old tractor.He must be fairly well off as both his kids went to a £10k a year private school.
I find it interesting that a bunch of petrolheads who are only too keen to argue endlessly about the importance of distinguishing between the trim and performance levels of various cars are apparently completely incapable of avoiding sweeping generalisations regarding other areas about which they know little.
Of course there are rich farmers, just as there are rich PHers. They own a lot of land, they buy FFRRs and S-class Mercs, just like the rich PHers. Does this mean that every PHer is rich?
The fact of the matter is that just like PHers, the great majority of farmers are not well-off. They farm because they love it, but of all the farmers I personally know here in Gloucestershire (and as a smallholder I know plenty), only one of them has his sole income from farming. The rest of them have wives that work outside, or they take on extra work off the farm. One of them is re-fencing one of our fields for us at the moment, it's the only money he's going to earn this month. It will get him about 500 quid.
The big problem that most farmers have to deal with is a public that wants a regulatory environment that enforces high standards of animal welfare. The public love to see happy piggies rootling in the mud, lambs gambolling in the fields, cows raised naturally free from being pumped full of hormones, free range chickens, and so on. This level of care costs money, and to be able to do it the farmer needs to sell his produce at a sensible price.
Unfortunately the public don't like the impact of this when they go shopping. They buy the cheapest they can find, conveniently ignoring the fact that the animals they are actually eating have often been raised in quite appalling conditions.
Of course there are rich farmers, just as there are rich PHers. They own a lot of land, they buy FFRRs and S-class Mercs, just like the rich PHers. Does this mean that every PHer is rich?
The fact of the matter is that just like PHers, the great majority of farmers are not well-off. They farm because they love it, but of all the farmers I personally know here in Gloucestershire (and as a smallholder I know plenty), only one of them has his sole income from farming. The rest of them have wives that work outside, or they take on extra work off the farm. One of them is re-fencing one of our fields for us at the moment, it's the only money he's going to earn this month. It will get him about 500 quid.
The big problem that most farmers have to deal with is a public that wants a regulatory environment that enforces high standards of animal welfare. The public love to see happy piggies rootling in the mud, lambs gambolling in the fields, cows raised naturally free from being pumped full of hormones, free range chickens, and so on. This level of care costs money, and to be able to do it the farmer needs to sell his produce at a sensible price.
Unfortunately the public don't like the impact of this when they go shopping. They buy the cheapest they can find, conveniently ignoring the fact that the animals they are actually eating have often been raised in quite appalling conditions.
Gaspode said:
Sensible stuff
At last.I work in the agricultural machinery sector and yes, I've met a few farmers that are very rich in an old money sort of way but a large part really has to consider their investment very carefully when they get new machinery.
Farm equipment dealer make a very large part of their revenue on used machinery.
We had a student with us this year who's family is farming 80/100 acres of land. We're talking cereals so quite a good revenue especially when the Eastern block get a s
tty harvest like the past 2 years. Yet that family's newest tractor is 15 years old and quite inneficient by modern standards.It's also a shame that out of 3 sons only 1 can work on the farm with their dad the other 2 will have to find a job somewhere else. that's how tight the overheads are.
A farmer close to the office is quite well off. He owns some land locally but that's a very small revenue and is mainly used to grow grass and feed his cows. His main business these days are:
- machinery storage
- machinery haulage
- machinery export
He's also had the foresight to buy a lot of land in Poland in the 90s when it was dirt cheap and that's a huge source of income. That's referring to the good 'business head' mentionned in other posts.
There are many people working in our company who are from farming family but had to do something else as farming alone won't support everyone.
I think it's a shame such hard work is not rewarded as it should.
Willy Nilly said:
Crossflow Kid said:
2 Mercedes Benz also make farm machinery
no they don't
Looks fairly agricultural to me. Maybe not a dedicated farm vehicle (though originally designed as one), but still in production with Mercedes-Benz.
If you're being really pedantic, I suspect you could argue that the agricultural division was merged into Deutz and the Unimog tractor design sold to Werner Frost eventually.
No, I didn't know all this stuff off the top of my head. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unimog
vsonix said:
Caulkhead said:
it's a two way street and until he sold his Mitsubishi pickup and bought British he wasn't in a position to complain.
ermmm... which British pickup is he supposed to buy in its place? J B L said:
He's also had the foresight to buy a lot of land in Poland in the 90s when it was dirt cheap and that's a huge source of income. That's referring to the good 'business head' mentionned in other posts.
In addition to my previous post. This.
Those farmers (tenant and otherwise) the who could see the year round demand for all crops, plus the increasing integration of Europe, bought half the continent (and beyond).
Last farmer I worked for had land in Spain, Egypt, Peru and Poland. Each one massively outsized his holdings in the UK.
His UK land pretty much adds a little icing on the cake. Pumpkin season, UK sweetcorn, a little UK asparagus and butternut squash.
90-95% of his material comes from overseas, but pretty much all of it comes from his land. Vast majority graded, packed, labelled and distributed from his UK pack house, and but of course using foreign labour as the British just don't want to do the job for minimum wage.
Lots of nice little tricks in material cost/profit declaration country etc. too.
It's not just huge corporations that play those games...
A tenant farmer who borrowed a relatively little sum in the 90s and spent it overseas could well have earned enough to buy his own UK land if he wished. I knew one, but he decided that he liked the area in NZ he'd bought, so emigrated.
As a farmer in a family owned 250acre farm in Scotland I would like to add my ha'penny worth. After passing 8 o levels I was mad keen to get started on the farm.Faither was of the generation that graft was what paid the bills and a fancy college that introduced a boozy lady chasing lifestyle would not be for me!
We run 80 beef cows and grow 150 acres of wheat/barley. Now I am not here to plead poverty as I believe if I am not happy with my lot I can go away and find another career but as yet farming is a long way from making me rich. In the winter months(October to April) my livestock have to be fed every day. I dont need to work from dawn until dusk but for 2 hours in the morning and one at night the livestock need to be attended to. If I want a weekend off(not happened this winter yet) I need to ask my brother who works as an engineer to stand in.
I certainly dont earn as much as minimum wage BUT I stay in a tied cottage and have no mortgage.There are perks such as putting fuel through business but not many. The subsidies we recieve go into the business to keep us afloat.Our accountant tells us 85% of his farm clients make a loss if subsidies are removed from the equation. The outgoings running a farm business are huge Fuel,fertiliser,chemical sprays and machinery costs. We keep out tractors until they have done high hours,my brother repairs them,but it is still a huge investment.
I am in farming for the long haul but it did make me think in the midst of the property boom in this area that a neighbouring farmer sold off his old buildings for development and a few plots. He got more for one plot than we would make farming for 7 years.
Last year when I met a new girlfriend who works as a physiotherapist in Edinburgh the conversation eventually turned to income. This is no joke but when I told her what I take out the business to live on she replied that it was quite a good wage! The only trouble was that she thought I was talking of a months income while I was talking about a years income! However she didnt run a mile and we are happy in our rural retreat.
I would just like to ask people when they are in the supermarket to look at the price of potatoes. I saw a 1kg pack at £2.50,when you multiply up that is £2500 a ton. The farmer is currently getting about £280 after getting crap yields and probably having sold his tatties on a forward contract. We sold our malting barley this year for £130 pounds a ton(contract price).The cost of the barley in a pint of beer is under two pence yet look at the price of a pint.
Yes I am sure that some farmers are rich but I am equally sure many are living in pretty poor circumstances aswell.
We run 80 beef cows and grow 150 acres of wheat/barley. Now I am not here to plead poverty as I believe if I am not happy with my lot I can go away and find another career but as yet farming is a long way from making me rich. In the winter months(October to April) my livestock have to be fed every day. I dont need to work from dawn until dusk but for 2 hours in the morning and one at night the livestock need to be attended to. If I want a weekend off(not happened this winter yet) I need to ask my brother who works as an engineer to stand in.
I certainly dont earn as much as minimum wage BUT I stay in a tied cottage and have no mortgage.There are perks such as putting fuel through business but not many. The subsidies we recieve go into the business to keep us afloat.Our accountant tells us 85% of his farm clients make a loss if subsidies are removed from the equation. The outgoings running a farm business are huge Fuel,fertiliser,chemical sprays and machinery costs. We keep out tractors until they have done high hours,my brother repairs them,but it is still a huge investment.
I am in farming for the long haul but it did make me think in the midst of the property boom in this area that a neighbouring farmer sold off his old buildings for development and a few plots. He got more for one plot than we would make farming for 7 years.
Last year when I met a new girlfriend who works as a physiotherapist in Edinburgh the conversation eventually turned to income. This is no joke but when I told her what I take out the business to live on she replied that it was quite a good wage! The only trouble was that she thought I was talking of a months income while I was talking about a years income! However she didnt run a mile and we are happy in our rural retreat.
I would just like to ask people when they are in the supermarket to look at the price of potatoes. I saw a 1kg pack at £2.50,when you multiply up that is £2500 a ton. The farmer is currently getting about £280 after getting crap yields and probably having sold his tatties on a forward contract. We sold our malting barley this year for £130 pounds a ton(contract price).The cost of the barley in a pint of beer is under two pence yet look at the price of a pint.
Yes I am sure that some farmers are rich but I am equally sure many are living in pretty poor circumstances aswell.
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