Glencoe avalanche
Discussion
Oh, and interesting article on risk of dying for various sporting activities:
http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/risk/...
http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/risk/...
A lot of people plan these trips for months and come long distances to get their fix of the hills. Some are going to go and climb regardless of the risks being higher. Note that in that part of the world at altitude, the weather is also very unpredictable. I'm not suggesting that this particular group took unnecessary risks, just that it's always risky climbing in winter there.
sjabrown said:
Oh, and interesting article on risk of dying for various sporting activities:
http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/risk/...
And the biggest killer? Heart disease!! http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/risk/...
sjabrown said:
Oh, and interesting article on risk of dying for various sporting activities:
http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/risk/...
I thought horse riding was one of the most dangerous, can't believe cycling is so high.http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/risk/...
Maybe it's just injuries they cause rather than deaths.
I saw a piece on the news where a climber explained the type of avalanche they were probably killed by, it appears that you end up walking on a "wind slab" of solid snow this feels very stable and you don't sink into it, then with no warning it simply loses it's grip on the rock and slides off the mountain taking you with it, bloody scary stuff.
You always assume that an avalanche will come from some over hanging drift or huge slab of fresh snow as you see in the Alps.
We may not have big mountains but we sure do have dangerous ones.
ViperPict said:
A lot of people plan these trips for months and come long distances to get their fix of the hills. Some are going to go and climb regardless of the risks being higher. Note that in that part of the world at altitude, the weather is also very unpredictable. I'm not suggesting that this particular group took unnecessary risks, just that it's always risky climbing in winter there.
Agree with this - there have been some accidents with people having gone out in 'marginal' conditions - as they dont want a wasted holiday and perhaps dont understand the magnitude of the risks. I am not suggesting this is the case for this particular group. From the press reports it seems they are a group of experienced fell walkers .. I am not sure if they were descending a gully when it gave way - or crossing the top of a gully or slope.
Slab avalanches can be very hard to predict ... I can remember starting to cross a relatively benign, and very short slope coming off some hills in the highlands a couple of winters ago a few days after some heavy snow ... there was a sudden *crack/whumph* noise .. and a long split opened up with whole slope just poised to go ... we quickly retreated and took an alternative way off.
sjabrown said:
How do you determine if an activity is safe? There is a comporable risk in driving to the hills, and road accidents put emergency services at risk when attending. Interestingly by far and away the most dangerous outdoor activity is base-jumping. Everything else carries similar risk (skiing, sky diving, mountain biking...)
How many climbers each winter die on Glencoe though? We were there a couple of years ago and a couple of climbers died, and I'm sure I've read about a few more since then. It's hardly an uncommon thing.WeirdNeville said:
There is no-one, and I do mean no-one, who goes into winter mountaineering in Scotland without awareness of the risks. You don't get out of bed one frosty morning and think "I'm going to go up that mountain today seeing as it's minus 3, the visibility is 10 feet at times, I've not got a compass or boots and I fancy a challenge".
.
You would be surprised what some idiots do .... [NOT suggesting at all this about the recent tragedy].
I was on the summit of Ben Nevis not that long ago in late winter - having gone round Carn Mhor Dhearg arete [sp?] with axe, crampons and full winter gear - and was having a hot drink in the little rescue pod thing up the ladder on the summit .. having a chat with a mtn rescue team having a day out [not on a rescue]
.. when a teenager in jeans, trainers , no cag, no map , no compass appeared in the shelter
we asked him how he got there : " I just followed the tourist path from the main road " [wtf!]
"how are you getting down " [ the visibility was about zero]- "I'll follow those steps down" .. pointing at the top of Zero Gully [ would have been a quick 5 second descent down the north face ... ]
He was told in no uncertain terms he was a complete f
king idiot who potentially was putting other peoples lives at risk , and he wasnt being given a choice but was coming down immediately with the experienced climbers in the shelter .He had no f
king idea where he was, what the route off was, where the path was ...and seemed totally oblivious to the risks he was under. If we hadnt been there he may just have walked right off the north face in the fog . complete idiot.alfaman said:
WeirdNeville said:
There is no-one, and I do mean no-one, who goes into winter mountaineering in Scotland without awareness of the risks. You don't get out of bed one frosty morning and think "I'm going to go up that mountain today seeing as it's minus 3, the visibility is 10 feet at times, I've not got a compass or boots and I fancy a challenge".
.
You would be surprised what some idiots do .... [NOT suggesting at all this about the recent tragedy].
http://www.lochaber-news.co.uk/News/Blast-for-walk...
And yes you do get some idiots unprepared but mostly they end up on the tourist path on the Ben, and do account for a proportion of deaths.
The numbers killed in Glencoe over the years may seem high but there is bias to the reporting: it makes the headlines of the national news normally. Compare to road fatalities that make the local news. The absolute risk of death is comporable to taking a journey in a car.
The numbers killed in Glencoe over the years may seem high but there is bias to the reporting: it makes the headlines of the national news normally. Compare to road fatalities that make the local news. The absolute risk of death is comporable to taking a journey in a car.
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